This forum is teaching me a lot but I got a ways to go so bear with me ...
I have not learned of a lot of these numbers 'yall throw around but my pressure is set at 15 out of 20, and I ain't no rocket scientist but that seems kinda high. Why was an exhalation relief machine not given to me in the first place. I have actually seen Slinky's response to one of my questions on the Software post so no one need answer that. It is about $$$
I thought when I went to the sleep lab, it would be more of a medical environment. Don't get me wrong, nice building and clean and people are knowledgable (apparently) and nice. That is not what I mean.
I mean that I have NEVER gotten such of a sales pitch in a medical environment. It was a real bummer. Not so much a pitch for the machine but for the facemask. I was given no choice of my machine. But it seemed I was getting "the package" deal. I left confident and happy that I had the Cadalliac. Then I found this forum ... Oh Brother ... forget Holiday Inn Express, all the experts are right here
Now no one woke me up either night I spent there and hooked up another machine for me to try, so how do dey know (yes, I'm feelin' smartmouthed today). How did someone determine that this machine or that machine would work better with me? No one offered a different machine to me, even if I paid for it.
When I called the next week after getting my machine and complained of being bloated and wife complaining about noise from the Swift ... and asked for an A-Flex, they had never heard of it .. didn't know about software ... don't have a reader in the office ... never had anyone ask about self monitoring.
I just got off the phone w/ the Big Boss at my DME (again - that was the sales pitch feeling I got - I don't know who she was). They will exchange my machine (70 hours) for a USED C-flex w/out data card capability that has 25 hours. She acted like I should be happy with that. Now I left this sales pitch place under the impression that it would take a while to get used to the machine and if there were any problems that they would make it right. Now when you tell me make it right, that means your gonna have to exchange something. I don't have a problem with used equipment and actually support having a used equipment section on this forum, FWIW. But I never got the impression in the beginning that I would be compensated with used equipment, else I would not have left there that day until I had learned more about this whole process.
DME also told me today that data collection was useless. I asked her what they did the 2 nights that I was in their facility. You know ... when they collected DATA!! Don't tell me data is not important!!
They are working on a Swift II conversion kit and I guess that is nice, I'll see if they make me pay for it.
DME Pulling My Leg? I Feel Mistreated!
9 posts
• Page 1 of 1
Coastal, it isn't June 30th yet. Assuming your got your equipment May 31???
Is this the ONLY DME your insurance is contracted with? Have you called your insurance company to find out what local DME options you have and/or if they would reimburse you if you bought from a reputable online DME supplier and submitted proof of purchase and price?
Have you gotten a copy of your full data report from both your sleep evaluation and your titration study?(5-6 pages each). And the dictated results report? (1-2 pages each). Have you gotten a copy of your script/order for equipment?
Have you talked to your sleep doctor about how he intends to monitor your response to xPAP therapy if you are given a bare bones, compliance data only, xPAP?
You are reaching for the stars and asking for a lot when insisting a DME supplier provide you w/an auto w/A-Flex when you don't even know for sure that you NEED the A-Flex (or even C-Flex). You have to be reasonable here and do your homework. W/o those reports and that original script/order you are working blind w/no weapons at your disposal. Get your amunition, then plan your offense instead of shooting blindly.
By the way, they do not need to "change machines" during the titration study. The equipment they use to monitor and titrate your pressures can do it all remotely from the "monitoring room" by the technician from straight CPAP thru bi-level type therapy.
Good luck!
Is this the ONLY DME your insurance is contracted with? Have you called your insurance company to find out what local DME options you have and/or if they would reimburse you if you bought from a reputable online DME supplier and submitted proof of purchase and price?
Have you gotten a copy of your full data report from both your sleep evaluation and your titration study?(5-6 pages each). And the dictated results report? (1-2 pages each). Have you gotten a copy of your script/order for equipment?
Have you talked to your sleep doctor about how he intends to monitor your response to xPAP therapy if you are given a bare bones, compliance data only, xPAP?
You are reaching for the stars and asking for a lot when insisting a DME supplier provide you w/an auto w/A-Flex when you don't even know for sure that you NEED the A-Flex (or even C-Flex). You have to be reasonable here and do your homework. W/o those reports and that original script/order you are working blind w/no weapons at your disposal. Get your amunition, then plan your offense instead of shooting blindly.
By the way, they do not need to "change machines" during the titration study. The equipment they use to monitor and titrate your pressures can do it all remotely from the "monitoring room" by the technician from straight CPAP thru bi-level type therapy.
Good luck!
_________________
| Mask: Quattro™ FX Full Face CPAP Mask with Headgear |
| Additional Comments: PR SystemOne BPAP Auto w/Bi-Flex & Humidifier - EncorePro 2.2 Software - Contec CMS-50D+ Oximeter - Respironics EverFlo Q Concentrator |
Women are Angels. And when someone breaks our wings, we simply continue to fly.....on a broomstick. We are flexible like that.
My computer says I need to upgrade my brain to be compatible with its new software.
My computer says I need to upgrade my brain to be compatible with its new software.
Coastal, I feel for you...
I too feel that when I was served by my Sleep doc and DME that it was an in and out thing. Get in, give your cash and get out. After having done more research (largely thanks to this board) I have come to the following conclusions:
1 - Having a DME in the sleep clinic is a huge conflict of interest. Especially when the Doctor warns you that "you have severe OSA and need a CPAP right away or you will die" and hands you a prescription. How many are going to pass by the nice clean DME office right there, since you already parked and are in the office.
2 - DMEs rely on uninformed customers. My DME gave me such a swan song about all this and that. "You want this machine, it is great you are getting the high end machine that this company sells. No it's not the floor model, I just unwrapped it and put it up there today. This mask is the perfect fit for you, here sit in this chair and slap this on your face. Perfect, way to go".
3 - Analytics software is crucial to this process to know how your therapy is progressing. What is your AHI night by night, do you have a leak that you can't detect manually? etc.. etc...
4 - DMEs want to give you the least for what they can charge. Give you the basic model and charge your insurance and the government (here in Canada we have ADP to cover some of the cost). They pad the bill so much that if you were to buy your own machine from CPAP.com you would save money even subtracting what ADP pays.
5 - DMEs are your best friends when you want to buy something... But when you want to discuss return or replacement (or any other of your rights under the overpriced maintenance agreement - $300+ for what exactly, to leave you messages on your machine?) all of a sudden they don't call you back. Not to mention that when you mention switching to another mahcine etc, you start to get the hassle about how the paperwork has already gone to ADP for their money.
6 - You need to demand your rights. If you let the DME and sleep clinic push you around you will not get any better. It is your life and health, not the DME and not the Sleep Clinic.
Sorry for the rant, just having a nightmare with my sleep doc and my DME lately.
Rob
I too feel that when I was served by my Sleep doc and DME that it was an in and out thing. Get in, give your cash and get out. After having done more research (largely thanks to this board) I have come to the following conclusions:
1 - Having a DME in the sleep clinic is a huge conflict of interest. Especially when the Doctor warns you that "you have severe OSA and need a CPAP right away or you will die" and hands you a prescription. How many are going to pass by the nice clean DME office right there, since you already parked and are in the office.
2 - DMEs rely on uninformed customers. My DME gave me such a swan song about all this and that. "You want this machine, it is great you are getting the high end machine that this company sells. No it's not the floor model, I just unwrapped it and put it up there today. This mask is the perfect fit for you, here sit in this chair and slap this on your face. Perfect, way to go".
3 - Analytics software is crucial to this process to know how your therapy is progressing. What is your AHI night by night, do you have a leak that you can't detect manually? etc.. etc...
4 - DMEs want to give you the least for what they can charge. Give you the basic model and charge your insurance and the government (here in Canada we have ADP to cover some of the cost). They pad the bill so much that if you were to buy your own machine from CPAP.com you would save money even subtracting what ADP pays.
5 - DMEs are your best friends when you want to buy something... But when you want to discuss return or replacement (or any other of your rights under the overpriced maintenance agreement - $300+ for what exactly, to leave you messages on your machine?) all of a sudden they don't call you back. Not to mention that when you mention switching to another mahcine etc, you start to get the hassle about how the paperwork has already gone to ADP for their money.
6 - You need to demand your rights. If you let the DME and sleep clinic push you around you will not get any better. It is your life and health, not the DME and not the Sleep Clinic.
Sorry for the rant, just having a nightmare with my sleep doc and my DME lately.
Rob
you are better off just returning that thing, it is a sub-$300 machine in the real world, if you don't have the symptoms of aerophagia yet you probably will.
Go try and sell that machine, you would be lucky to get $150 for it.
if your pressure is 15cm, you should be on a Bipap Auto if you want to make a go at this therapy and obtain some kind of comfort from it.
Sleep medicine is a racket, it is all about $$$. YOURS!
But the bottom line is it is still your health. and what is that worth to you? If you compare the costs of these machines to say the cost of a MacMini, or a laptop, there is not much difference but those are just toys to me.
But when it comes to your health, I feel you should spend and get the best treatment available you can for it and not bow to some conglomerate's profit margin with lesser available therapy. In my opinion, comfort is just as important as therapy when it comes to this disorder. if you are not comfortable you are not going to use it.
My recommendation to you:
1. Return that machine ASAP, just say you cannot use it.
2. Get a copy of your sleep study and prescription from the doctor.
3. Order a BiPap Auto on-line and get the machine you want or at least get one that will make therapy much more comfortable to tolerate than what you have.
Mask: those are personal thing, but the one you have is known to be noisy and delivery of the cpap air uncomfortable. It doesn't have to be like that, there are nasal masks that are much more comfortable, don't have the nare irritation, don't blow cold air directly into your nostrils and are completely silent with no hissing. But my experience is the interfaces like you have are inherently noisy, there is simply not enough there to quieten them down.
Go check out cpap.com's Bi-pap Auto's. Their prices are competitive, if you find a better price for the same item, they will match it, they have many times for me.
With the Bipap it will offer you much more relief from that 15cm pressure on exhale, it may even result in a lower pressure, if you develop some kind of aerophagia down the road you have a machine you can adjust to reduce those symptoms.
if you go back to your doctor and they give you flack about it saying you need another titration for bilevel, don't believe it, with the bipap auto you don't even need that. They only want to do that so they can put you on the same cheap version of a bipap so you have to go back every time you have a problem or need a minor change. Any of the auto machines will find your pressure on a breath by breath basis. First thing will be out of their mouths is it doesn't work, they are wrong for you, they will make up every excuse they can. Sometimes that Used car salesmen in the polyester suit has more integrity than some found in this industry.
But you have to find that out for yourself, all we can do is warn you for what to look out for.
At least with a Bipap auto or a auto, you can resale the thing and recover some of your costs. Plain jane machines are not, go google your machine and see what it sells for.
Go try and sell that machine, you would be lucky to get $150 for it.
if your pressure is 15cm, you should be on a Bipap Auto if you want to make a go at this therapy and obtain some kind of comfort from it.
Sleep medicine is a racket, it is all about $$$. YOURS!
But the bottom line is it is still your health. and what is that worth to you? If you compare the costs of these machines to say the cost of a MacMini, or a laptop, there is not much difference but those are just toys to me.
But when it comes to your health, I feel you should spend and get the best treatment available you can for it and not bow to some conglomerate's profit margin with lesser available therapy. In my opinion, comfort is just as important as therapy when it comes to this disorder. if you are not comfortable you are not going to use it.
My recommendation to you:
1. Return that machine ASAP, just say you cannot use it.
2. Get a copy of your sleep study and prescription from the doctor.
3. Order a BiPap Auto on-line and get the machine you want or at least get one that will make therapy much more comfortable to tolerate than what you have.
Mask: those are personal thing, but the one you have is known to be noisy and delivery of the cpap air uncomfortable. It doesn't have to be like that, there are nasal masks that are much more comfortable, don't have the nare irritation, don't blow cold air directly into your nostrils and are completely silent with no hissing. But my experience is the interfaces like you have are inherently noisy, there is simply not enough there to quieten them down.
Go check out cpap.com's Bi-pap Auto's. Their prices are competitive, if you find a better price for the same item, they will match it, they have many times for me.
With the Bipap it will offer you much more relief from that 15cm pressure on exhale, it may even result in a lower pressure, if you develop some kind of aerophagia down the road you have a machine you can adjust to reduce those symptoms.
if you go back to your doctor and they give you flack about it saying you need another titration for bilevel, don't believe it, with the bipap auto you don't even need that. They only want to do that so they can put you on the same cheap version of a bipap so you have to go back every time you have a problem or need a minor change. Any of the auto machines will find your pressure on a breath by breath basis. First thing will be out of their mouths is it doesn't work, they are wrong for you, they will make up every excuse they can. Sometimes that Used car salesmen in the polyester suit has more integrity than some found in this industry.
But you have to find that out for yourself, all we can do is warn you for what to look out for.
At least with a Bipap auto or a auto, you can resale the thing and recover some of your costs. Plain jane machines are not, go google your machine and see what it sells for.
Last edited by Snoredog on Fri Jun 08, 2007 5:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
someday science will catch up to what I'm saying...
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christinequilts
- Posts: 489
- Joined: Sun Jan 23, 2005 12:06 pm
Slinky gave you some great advice on figuring out what you need before you start demanding various machines.
Titration is to figure out what your pressure needs are, not which machine you like best. More then likely you were on a clinical BiPAP, which can be used in CPAP, BiPAP or BiPAP ST without needing to switch machines. A-flex is pretty new technology- its only been available for a couple weeks to months, at the most, from what I recall. So its not surprising not all DME's are familiar with it. In the next week or two is one of the big national sleep conferences, which is when a lot of new technology will be formally introduced.
As for: They will exchange my machine (70 hours) for a USED C-flex w/out data card capability that has 25 hours.
I guess I don't see why the fact you would be exchanging a USED machine with 70 hours on for another one with 25 hours would be an issue in itself? The machine would have 1/3 the hours your current machine has on it.
Titration is to figure out what your pressure needs are, not which machine you like best. More then likely you were on a clinical BiPAP, which can be used in CPAP, BiPAP or BiPAP ST without needing to switch machines. A-flex is pretty new technology- its only been available for a couple weeks to months, at the most, from what I recall. So its not surprising not all DME's are familiar with it. In the next week or two is one of the big national sleep conferences, which is when a lot of new technology will be formally introduced.
As for: They will exchange my machine (70 hours) for a USED C-flex w/out data card capability that has 25 hours.
I guess I don't see why the fact you would be exchanging a USED machine with 70 hours on for another one with 25 hours would be an issue in itself? The machine would have 1/3 the hours your current machine has on it.
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rested gal
- Posts: 12881
- Joined: Thu Sep 09, 2004 10:14 pm
- Location: Tennessee
The low number of hours wouldn't bother me about accepting a machine. But settling for a machine without full data recording capability would bother me. I wouldn't accept that kind of machine IF I wanted to monitor my own overnight data via software.christinequilts wrote:As for: They will exchange my machine (70 hours) for a USED C-flex w/out data card capability that has 25 hours.
I guess I don't see why the fact you would be exchanging a USED machine with 70 hours on for another one with 25 hours would be an issue in itself? The machine would have 1/3 the hours your current machine has on it.
ResMed S9 VPAP Auto (ASV)
Humidifier: Integrated + Climate Control hose
Mask: Aeiomed Headrest (deconstructed, with homemade straps
3M painters tape over mouth
ALL LINKS by rested gal:
viewtopic.php?t=17435
Humidifier: Integrated + Climate Control hose
Mask: Aeiomed Headrest (deconstructed, with homemade straps
3M painters tape over mouth
ALL LINKS by rested gal:
viewtopic.php?t=17435
AMEN, RG! No way would I accept a less than fully data capable machine. I've purchased a used auto w/505 hours on it. What's 25 or 70 hours on an xPAP??? Gracious, they are good for 1000s of hours! But not fully data capable? NO WAY!
_________________
| Mask: Quattro™ FX Full Face CPAP Mask with Headgear |
| Additional Comments: PR SystemOne BPAP Auto w/Bi-Flex & Humidifier - EncorePro 2.2 Software - Contec CMS-50D+ Oximeter - Respironics EverFlo Q Concentrator |
Women are Angels. And when someone breaks our wings, we simply continue to fly.....on a broomstick. We are flexible like that.
My computer says I need to upgrade my brain to be compatible with its new software.
My computer says I need to upgrade my brain to be compatible with its new software.
[quote="rhowald"]Coastal, I feel for you...
I too feel that when I was served by my Sleep doc and DME that it was an in and out thing. Get in, give your cash and get out. After having done more research (largely thanks to this board) I have come to the following conclusions:
1 - Having a DME in the sleep clinic is a huge conflict of interest. Especially when the Doctor warns you that "you have severe OSA and need a CPAP right away or you will die" and hands you a prescription. How many are going to pass by the nice clean DME office right there, since you already parked and are in the office.
2 - DMEs rely on uninformed customers. My DME gave me such a swan song about all this and that. "You want this machine, it is great you are getting the high end machine that this company sells. No it's not the floor model, I just unwrapped it and put it up there today. This mask is the perfect fit for you, here sit in this chair and slap this on your face. Perfect, way to go".
3 - Analytics software is crucial to this process to know how your therapy is progressing. What is your AHI night by night, do you have a leak that you can't detect manually? etc.. etc...
4 - DMEs want to give you the least for what they can charge. Give you the basic model and charge your insurance and the government (here in Canada we have ADP to cover some of the cost). They pad the bill so much that if you were to buy your own machine from CPAP.com you would save money even subtracting what ADP pays.
5 - DMEs are your best friends when you want to buy something... But when you want to discuss return or replacement (or any other of your rights under the overpriced maintenance agreement - $300+ for what exactly, to leave you messages on your machine?) all of a sudden they don't call you back. Not to mention that when you mention switching to another mahcine etc, you start to get the hassle about how the paperwork has already gone to ADP for their money.
6 - You need to demand your rights. If you let the DME and sleep clinic push you around you will not get any better. It is your life and health, not the DME and not the Sleep Clinic.
Sorry for the rant, just having a nightmare with my sleep doc and my DME lately.
Rob
I too feel that when I was served by my Sleep doc and DME that it was an in and out thing. Get in, give your cash and get out. After having done more research (largely thanks to this board) I have come to the following conclusions:
1 - Having a DME in the sleep clinic is a huge conflict of interest. Especially when the Doctor warns you that "you have severe OSA and need a CPAP right away or you will die" and hands you a prescription. How many are going to pass by the nice clean DME office right there, since you already parked and are in the office.
2 - DMEs rely on uninformed customers. My DME gave me such a swan song about all this and that. "You want this machine, it is great you are getting the high end machine that this company sells. No it's not the floor model, I just unwrapped it and put it up there today. This mask is the perfect fit for you, here sit in this chair and slap this on your face. Perfect, way to go".
3 - Analytics software is crucial to this process to know how your therapy is progressing. What is your AHI night by night, do you have a leak that you can't detect manually? etc.. etc...
4 - DMEs want to give you the least for what they can charge. Give you the basic model and charge your insurance and the government (here in Canada we have ADP to cover some of the cost). They pad the bill so much that if you were to buy your own machine from CPAP.com you would save money even subtracting what ADP pays.
5 - DMEs are your best friends when you want to buy something... But when you want to discuss return or replacement (or any other of your rights under the overpriced maintenance agreement - $300+ for what exactly, to leave you messages on your machine?) all of a sudden they don't call you back. Not to mention that when you mention switching to another mahcine etc, you start to get the hassle about how the paperwork has already gone to ADP for their money.
6 - You need to demand your rights. If you let the DME and sleep clinic push you around you will not get any better. It is your life and health, not the DME and not the Sleep Clinic.
Sorry for the rant, just having a nightmare with my sleep doc and my DME lately.
Rob
9 posts
• Page 1 of 1