Why would a Hybrid result in Deeper Sleep? (full face mask).

[SelfSeeker]

Why would a Hybrid result in deeper sleep?

The AHI total is more or less the same about 1.5 as when I wear the Nasal Aire II.

After reading neverbetter's post about his wife in the topic below, I decided to use my Hybrid when I did not have a cold.

I felt I went into a deeper sleep. I did not wake up as often. Yet the AHI and data charts look similar as when I use the NA II.

Do others who use a full face mask get deeper sleep?

Would it have something to do with the extra volume in the mask? Less oxygen??

(I recently switched back to APAP mode, because that also helps with sleep.)

viewtopic.php?p=162543#162543

The Hybrid is a life saver for me. It's my dream mask and I wouldn't be without it. Even my wife who favors little nasalaire and swift masks, is sleeping 8 hours every night for the first time in 3 years without getting up to use the lew.
I'm surprised cpaptalk.com doesn't have a better review or at least a review from someone who has used it with the new headgear and has the new shell.The review that is up there doesn't address any of the fantastic changes. People miss out because their afraid to buy what I think is probably the worlds best mask for cpap.

[mecocosm]

SelfSeeker,

In my opinion, two factors could explain why you get deeper sleep with the Hybrid:

1. The Hybrid delivers a large amount of fresh air into your upper airways and that might improve oxygenation.

2. The Hybrid has the most generous exhaust flow rate among all masks I'm aware of. This exhaust flow flushes out the exhaled CO2 and you won't re-breathe the CO2 as much.

I don't think you will get the same level of deep sleep with other FF masks because other FF masks don't deliver all the air into the nose and mouth. Some of the air blows over the nose, into the eyes , over the cheeks etc and hence, the delivery of fresh air is not as efficient as the Hybrid. Also, none of the FF masks I know of (I have used UMFF and HC431 in the past) have such a strong flush out of the exhaled air.

[blarg]

Put simply, the numbers don't tell the whole story. Yes, they help, but they can't tell if you had an arousal due to your hose snagging, or a noisy leak, or etc etc. Maybe the Hybrid just fits better.

It could also be that your mouth was falling open while you slept and you were mouth leaking. Full face masks would make that experience quite a bit more pleasant than it would otherwise be on a nasal mask.

Anyway, the final word is all on how you feel. If you feel better with the hybrid, I wouldn't question a good thing.

[cpapnewby]

Why would a Hybrid result in deeper sleep?

The AHI total is more or less the same about 1.5 as when I wear the Nasal Aire II.

After reading neverbetter's post about his wife in the topic below, I decided to use my Hybrid when I did not have a cold.

I felt I went into a deeper sleep. I did not wake up as often. Yet the AHI and data charts look similar as when I use the NA II.

Do others who use a full face mask get deeper sleep?

Would it have something to do with the extra volume in the mask? Less oxygen??

(I recently switched back to APAP mode, because that also helps with sleep.)

viewtopic.php?p=162543#162543

You could have had less arousals with the HYbrid because you experienced less leaks. From what I know, arousals can happen due to mask leaks. Plus, remember that you might be mouth leaking with your NAII but the Hybrid takes care of that.

Jim

[neverbetter]

I think it's because you can breath out easier with a hybrid mask than a full face mask. It makes for a very normal nights sleep.

[Snoredog]

I think the results on that mask are mixed at best. It is the most highly traded used mask on the forum.

If you feel better using it great, AHI could be lower because therapy pressure is no longer flowing out the leaking mouth.

But if a person sleeps with their mouth closed (many do with Full Face masks) then that means the machine must deliver the therapy air first through the mouthpiece and if the mouth is closed does it flow into the nasal pillows and into the airway.

So in essence, all the mask is doing it sending the therapy pressure via the nares like any nasal prong mask interface would. Should you open your mouth with the Hybrid therapy pressure would equalized both in the nares and mouth but the largest volume of air would enter the mouth.

So a lot a varibables to consider why your AHI would be lower.

Is it lower because the mouth leaks have stopped? You would have to compare your leak data from the prior mask.

Or is it lower because the machine possibly didn't see the event?

You would have to compare the # of events seen from another interface to the Hybrid's # of events seen which would be very difficult to do. If your mouth is closed while using the Hybrid the auto machine would have to pick up your breathing via the nasal prongs.

This means the airflow would first go back to the mouthpiece before it ever gave feed back to the machine. So if there was an apnea or hypopnea that event would have to be "sensed" going in the reverse. When you use like a swift or other nasal prong interface it doesn't have to do this (have the mouthpiece deadspace area). So it could very well be with the Hybrid it may even be harder for the machine to read your events accurately.

Or it could be it simply offers better treatment. I couldn't use the Hybrid, I sold mine, I found the UMFF more comfortable and leaked less with less noise. But those with very high pressure and beards seem to like it so the results are mixed.

[WearyOne]

But if a person sleeps with their mouth closed (many do with Full Face masks) then that means the machine must deliver the therapy air first through the mouthpiece and if the mouth is closed does it flow into the nasal pillows and into the airway.

So in essence, all the mask is doing it sending the therapy pressure via the nares like any nasal prong mask interface would. Should you open your mouth with the Hybrid therapy pressure would equalized both in the nares and mouth but the largest volume of air would enter the mouth.

So a lot a varibables to consider why your AHI would be lower.

Is it lower because the mouth leaks have stopped? You would have to compare your leak data from the prior mask.

Or is it lower because the machine possibly didn't see the event?

You would have to compare the # of events seen from another interface to the Hybrid's # of events seen which would be very difficult to do. If your mouth is closed while using the Hybrid the auto machine would have to pick up your breathing via the nasal prongs.

This means the airflow would first go back to the mouthpiece before it ever gave feed back to the machine. So if there was an apnea or hypopnea that event would have to be "sensed" going in the reverse. When you use like a swift or other nasal prong interface it doesn't have to do this (have the mouthpiece deadspace area). So it could very well be with the Hybrid it may even be harder for the machine to read your events accurately.

Wouldn't that be the case, then, for all FF masks, that if you keep your mouth closed the air has to go further up in the mask to go totally through the nose? If that's the case, I think the Hybrid would fair better than other FF masks because there's less mask space. Other FF masks cover the nose entirely, going all the way up next to the eyes--a lot more space for air to fill than the Hybrid.

If the machine has a hard time sensing events and therefore showing lower than the actual AHI with the Hybrid, how would that be different than any other FF mask?

I've had my battles with my Hybrid, some nights almost a perfect seal and other nights it's like I'm not wearing the same mask I have such a hard time getting rid of leaks. The only other FF mask I've tried so far is the Ultra Mirage, and that is a lot worse. I've tried taping my mouth with the NAII, but I can't stand taping, can't stand a chin strip, can't stand having to keep my tongue in one position all night long. It's also much harder, at least for me, to breathe with that type of mask. So, although I don't normally mouth breathe, I prefer a FF-type mask.

Intersting thoughts, though.

Pam

[patbringer]

One explanation I've heard concerning the Hybrid giving lower AHI readings is that the chin flap of the Hybrid stabilizes the lower jaw, the lower jaw doesn't get pushed back as much as other FF masks when the straps are tightened. The belief is that when the lower jaw gets pushed behind, it actually narrows the airway and causes more events.

Bottomline, theories like this are dime a dozen. What matters is how you feel upon waking up. The Hybrid is the only interface that allows me to stay compliant.

Cheers!

Pat