Trying to figure out how to use P95 And P Mean data on report so i can adjust APAP ranges if necessary

[Jman1965]

I pulled up my compliance report on my Luna 11, it shows P95 8.0 cmH2o and P Mean 6.5 cmH20 AHI 0.1 SNI 0.0 Leak 24.4 LPM. I am trying to decipher what theses values mean. I read that the P95 and P mean numbers help determine the range you want to set your APAP for. Currently my ranges are set at 5-20 for Auto Pap, should i adjust those numbers based on this report or just leave them in the range i was prescribed?

[zonker]

I pulled up my compliance report on my Luna 11, it shows P95 8.0 cmH2o and P Mean 6.5 cmH20 AHI 0.1 SNI 0.0 Leak 24.4 LPM. I am trying to decipher what theses values mean. I read that the P95 and P mean numbers help determine the range you want to set your APAP for. Currently my ranges are set at 5-20 for Auto Pap, should i adjust those numbers based on this report or just leave them in the range i was prescribed?

not a terribly rich knowledge base here amongst the forum for luna machines. but i'm sure someone will chime in.

the only thing i can tell you is that an AHI of 0.1 is stellar! the only thing that would "beat" it is an AHI of 0. having said that, there is no need to chase that 0. it won't help anything and will only give you bragging rights.

how long have you been on the machine?

for a majority of us, using a minimum pressure of 5 would be very hard to breathe against. is it okay for you?

and to answer your question it looks like you should leave them alone as long as you are comfortable.

[Pugsy]

You first have to understand what the P95 and median numbers mean.
P95 just means that you were AT OR BELOW that pressure number for 95% of the night.
Median pressure just means for half the night you were below that number and half the night you were above that number.

Both numbers along with your nice low AHI reflect that things are working quite well at the current settings and I don't know that I would go screwing around with them.
Now if the P95 and median number was in the teens or mid teens or the AHI wasn't so nice and low then we would probably want to increase your minimum a bit higher.
But if it were my report from my machine I would just leave the settings like they are if you are comfortable with them and sleeping and feeling decently.

Your leak number ..... I don't know how your machine reports leaks but it seems to work like the Respironics machines work and that leak number is likely a total leak number (means it includes the intentional vent rate plus any excess leak) and NOT an excess only leak number like ResMed reports leaks. ResMed is the only machine I know of that reports excess only leak.
So I don't think leaks are a problem unless they are waking you up.
Most of that 24 L/min leak number is likely intentional vent rate leak and not excess leak.

I would leave well enough alone if it were me. I see no urgent need to go screwing with those settings.
We don't sleep the same each night anyway.

[Jman1965]

Thanks Pugsy,
That helps alot.
Appreciate it!

[dataq1]

I pulled up my compliance report on my Luna 11, it shows P95 8.0 cmH2o and P Mean 6.5 cmH20 AHI 0.1 SNI 0.0 Leak 24.4 LPM. I am trying to decipher what theses values mean.

What do those values mean?
P95 of 8.5 means that 95% of your session was at a pressure of 8.0 OR LESS
P is the simple average pressure during the entirety of your session
AHI is the composite index of Apneas (complete cessation of breathing for >10 seconds) and Hypopneas (reduced breathing, but not cessation) for >10 seconds
SNI is an index of snoring
Leak is the rate of leakage that is NOT intentional, while 24,4 is not horrible, you should try to improve (lower) this value.

If you were prescribed your Cpap because your untreated AHI was >5, on first glance it would appear that at your present settings you are very well treated.

[Pugsy]

I pulled up my compliance report on my Luna 11, it shows P95 8.0 cmH2o and P Mean 6.5 cmH20 AHI 0.1 SNI 0.0 Leak 24.4 LPM. I am trying to decipher what theses values mean.

What do those values mean?
P95 of 8.5 means that 95% of your session was at a pressure of 8.0 OR LESS
P is the simple average pressure during the entirety of your session
AHI is the composite index of Apneas (complete cessation of breathing for >10 seconds) and Hypopneas (reduced breathing, but not cessation) for >10 seconds
SNI is an index of snoring
Leak is the rate of leakage that is NOT intentional, while 24,4 is not horrible, you should try to improve (lower) this value.

If you were prescribed your Cpap because your untreated AHI was >5, on first glance it would appear that at your present settings you are very well treated.

So you know for a fact that the Luna only reports excess leak???
I think you are wrong.
As far as I know the ResMed brand machine is the only machine that reports only excess leak.
If someone has proof otherwise I would be happy to see it.

Unless you have proof that what the OP is seeing is excess leak and 24 is their line in the sand...please don't go telling people that they need to reduce their leaks. It can be alarming when no alarm is needed and cause unnecessary stress for someone.

[zonker]

i dunno if this is helpful at all re: leaks and luna, but found this at apenaboard-

https://www.apneaboard.com/forums/Threa ... k-readings

[Pugsy]

i dunno if this is helpful at all re: leaks and luna, but found this at apenaboard-

https://www.apneaboard.com/forums/Threa ... k-readings

I guess I could go get the manual for the Luna and see if it mentions how the leak is figured.
Maybe they did mimic ResMed and chose to report only excess leak but I want proof and not what someone on another forum says. If they did then that is a 95% leak number and all that means is the AT OR BELOW thing and a 95% leak number barely above 24 doesn't mean much. Would really need to see the actual leak line graph to say with any certainty.

[Pugsy]

i dunno if this is helpful at all re: leaks and luna, but found this at apenaboard-

https://www.apneaboard.com/forums/Threa ... k-readings

I guess I could go get the manual for the Luna and see if it mentions how the leak is figured.
Maybe they did mimic ResMed and chose to report only excess leak but I want proof and not what someone on another forum says. If they did then that is a 95% leak number and all that means is the AT OR BELOW thing and a 95% leak number barely above 24 doesn't mean much. Would really need to see the actual leak line graph to say with any certainty.

So...all the apneaboard has is the general setup guide for the Luna.
I couldn't find the in depth clinical or provider manual but I did find where they said that the machine can compensate for leaks up to 70 L/min
and apparently there is an alarm both loud and on the screen but it doesn't say at what level of leak causes the alarm.
This makes me think the machine reports total leak which is of course the intentional/vent rate PLUS any excess leaks.
Until someone proves me wrong I still say that the 24.5 L/min number is likely a total leak number and not excess leak only.



Now if the someone who told the someone (on the apneaboard) was from a DME/provider office and they said that "as long as you are below 24 L/min you are fine)....well I don't trust a damn thing anyone from a DME office says because most of the time they don't have a clue about the fine details of these machines.

[zonker]

....well I don't trust a damn thing anyone from a DME office says because most of the time they don't have a clue about the fine details of these machines.

yup. i've read some real whoppers posted here by users who say "well, my dme said..".

[dataq1]

It is the mask that establishes the intentional leak rate, not the machine. Leak rates that are in excess of the intentional rate are unintentional and the user should strive to minimize these.
Documentation that accompanies the mask will reveal the intentional leak rate at various pressures.

[Pugsy]

It is the mask that establishes the intentional leak rate, not the machine. Leak rates that are in excess of the intentional rate are unintentional and the user should strive to minimize these.
Documentation that accompanies the mask will reveal the intentional leak rate at various pressures.

Yes but it is the machine that reports the leaks (either total leak or only excess leak) and that is what we see on the reports.
Not all machines report the leaks the same.
ResMed reports EXCESS leak only no matter which mask is used and Respironics reports TOTAL leak no matter what mask is used.
And not all machine brands will use the same line in the sand for large leaks no matter what mask is used or what pressure is used.

One needs to know HOW the leak gets reported and where the line in the sand is for a particular brand of machine to be able to know if leaks are much of a problem or not.

[dataq1]

@jman1965
If it not otherwise obvious, the indexed numbers (AHI, SNI, etc) are simply the number of events (of that type) divided by to total hours that the Luna is running.

Consequently, Assume that you have your Luna running for 8 hours. It is possible that you could have 8 apneas in one hour but the other seven hours have none.
Your session AHI would be 1.0 or (1 apnea each 60 minutes) but during that "bad period" you had, on average, 8 apneas in 60 minutes ( approx 1 apnea every 7 minutes).

Regarding leaks, all masks are intended to "leak" so as to prevent rebreathing of exhaled (CO2 enriched) air. The amount of that intentional (sometines called passive or vent leak) varies with pressure and design by the manufacturer. (so, for example, a Hybrid brand mask is designed to leak at approximately 50 liters per minute at 10 cm, an Ultra mirage is designed to leak at approximately 36 liters/min.

Since we do not know what mask you are using, we can't tell what your passive or vent leak rate should be at your nominal pressures. But in general most masks have an intentional leak rate of approximately 30 or so at 8 cm pressure.

The "red line" that Pugsy mentions is (in the case of ResMed machines) is a value that the manufacturer suggests that reliability of the machine becomes degraded. Resmed calls out a value of 24 l/min IN EXCESS OF the intentional/passive/vent leak as that point where degradation (of accuracy or reliability) become significant for their machines,

The bottom line is that leaks in excess of the passive/intentional/vent are to be minimized for best machine performance.

* if your Luna reports a leak rate less than mask's intentional/passive/vent rate, that would be a clue that your device is reporting excess leak rather than total leak.