No deep sleep/very little REM? ASV user here looking for help! :)

[SimbaLion]

Use a ResMed 10 ASV machine with a Philips Amara View full face mask (mouth breather, nose clogged up a lot of time even after multiple sinus surgeries)

I've been using some sleep trackers recently, and they all basically show me at extremely low levels of deep sleep or REM sleep. Whoop (an HR/HRV tracker) oftentimes showed me at 7 hours in bed, awake for 1:15 Light at 4:00, REM at 14 minutes, Deep at :45. (On a good night). I have since tried different devices such as the Amazon Halo (similar results) and now the Apple Watch with different apps (AutoSleep shows me at absolutely zero "deep sleep"). I've been trying to improve this, although I understand that these devices are decidedly less accurate than a real EEG sleep study.

Settings on ASV:

Min EPAP 5.0, Max EPAP 15.0, Min PS 4.0, Max PS 10.0

Some OSCAR screenshots (last night, one about a week ago, and one about 14 months ago):

Jan 2.png (153.56 KiB) Viewed 1261 times

Dec 28.png (136.82 KiB) Viewed 1261 times

Oct 19 2020.png (145.36 KiB) Viewed 1261 times

Any thoughts? Settings on my machine? Anything else I can try to improve deep sleep? Or is it just an artifact that these sleep trackers aren't well calibrated for someone with apnea? I don't FEEL bad during the day (no real sleepiness). Thanks!

[Pugsy]

Do you remember waking very much during the night?

Do you take any medications of any kind, even OTC? If so, what?

[SimbaLion]

I’ve been waking more than usual recently although I’ve also had nights where I go the whole night without remembering being awake. So it’s a bit of a mix, but the results on the sleep tracking are similar on either kind of night.

No medications except for a beta blocker which is a tiny dose I take in the morning.

[Pugsy]

I don't know that I trust those sleep gadgets all that much myself ever since my FitBit Charge II said I was in deep sleep and I know for a fact I was wide awake because I had let the dog out to pee.
But for all of them to essentially be reporting lacking sleep stages...does make a person wonder a bit.

Beta blockers (even tiny doses) can mess with sleep especially since they are known to cause a reduction in the body of producing melatonin.

Can you safely take melatonin? If so, I would try a low dose for about a week and see what happens.

I don't see anything just screaming on your report that points to something in your machine settings or your therapy that might be much of a factor. Doesn't mean it isn't there but I just don't see it. If you wanted to try a setting change...maybe increasing the minimum EPAP from 5 to 6 and see if it changes anything. I doubt that it will but it won't hurt to give it a try.

The list for poor sleep quality causes is miles long. Assuming your gadgets are correct you probably should be googling "sleep maintenance insomnia" causes and see if anything stands out.

Another thing...do you ever drink alcohol anywhere close to bedtime?

Now there are home sleep studies that will actually measure sleep stages...might talk to your doctor about having one done.
It's what we call a Type 2 home sleep study.
http://freecpapadvice.com/home-sleep-tests

[SimbaLion]

Thanks pugsy for taking a look.

I'll try the EPAP suggestion and see if that does anything. So, basically, if I didn't even point out that I was lacking deep sleep, my OSCAR charts look ok? I can't make heads or tails out of them, so I'm glad.

Been on the fence about trying melatonin -- been reading conflicting studies on if it's beneficial or detrimental to one's sleep cycles long term.


On an unrelated note -- my cellular function stopped working...can't get it to turn back on again...has anyone seen that before? Tried the user power cycling, moving to a different room, etc. Makes no sense to me. Just shows the no coverage X out on the signal.

[Pugsy]

Unfortunately the data from these machines can't really tell us about sleep stages at all. Heck, they can't really tell the difference between awake and asleep.
Now sometimes we might spot some stuff that could maybe be messing with sleep but it's all a bunch of maybes. I just don't see it on your data though.

I did read that beta blockers are known to reduce melatonin and sometimes a lot and melatonin is important in sleep...most of us have enough melatonin but again...maybe you don't.