Resmed S9, Airsense 10 and a Bit of a Story

[BanjoPaterson]

A small story of CPAP ownership that begins a week ago, where I was the owner of two Resmed S9 Autosets. There was my favourite, a 2010 model with 12500 hours, and a 2014 model with 4600 hours on it. Both of these replaced my previous S8, which had about 12000 hours on it when I gave it away in 2013/4.

I'd read that Resmed S9 models can display a message "Motor life exceeded" after about 15,000 hours, and so I rang Resmed Australia to see if I could get "Ol' Faithful" refurbished. The conversation remained pleasant, but the upshot was they'd replace for the fan for about $1000 AUD but not the motherboard, which would still have the same number of hours. The technician asked why I didn't upgrade to an Airsense 10 and I stated that, although it was an excellent machine, I like keeping my S9 under the bed. In the morning I roll over, reach down, turn off the airflow and check my sleep score. A bit like a tournament, but the lower the score the better.

I told the technician I'd tried using an Airsense 10 back in 2015, I had to tilt it up to see the display. The technician said the Airsense 10 could be placed on a bedside table. I replied that, aesthetic as the machine is, it isn't a Monet and when I don't use my CPAPs I don't want to see them. We came to an impasse and I decided to look at the second hand market.

Off eBay I was able to purchase two machines, one with 0 hours that literally was new in the box; and one with 72 hours. These two machines, coupled with my 4600 hour machine, would give over 40000 hours or more -- or over 13 years. At my age, it's possible my CPAPs would outlast me.

I also decided to offset some of the cost by selling my 12500 hour model and sweetened the deal with a mask plus new-in-plastic heated tube. I made sure the run hours were visible in the ad, as I did not want to diddle anyone, and initially put it on for $200. I got a buyer for a bit under $400 and... here's where the story go awry, somewhat.

It turns out this buyer lives in rural Australia and in a not-so-well-to-do area. Not only that, he borrowed money to afford the machine. Me? I'm definitely not Bill Gates, but I work in IT and earn a reasonable wage. I felt about *this* small {tiny gap between thumb and index finger} selling the fellow a 12500 hour machine that may have between 1-3 years of worth. So, instead, I sent them my 4600 hour machine. That would give an additional 3 years.

So I still have my favourite, plus 2 new machines. In all, now about 33,000 hours. My strategy now is to use "Ol' Faithful" until it goes to the blower in the sky, then use the others. I will often use the "backup" machines a few days each month just to make sure everything ticks over.

No good deed goes unpunished, as conventional wisdom says, and the 0 hour machine does the "bird chirp" on exhale with some sound up the tube. Not as bad as I've had it with my first S9 [that I replaced under warranty], but annoying enough. The 72 hour machine is as quiet as a church mouse ... although why these rodents would be any quieter than, say, mice living in the basement of a heavy metal band is anyones guess. I'll see if the "bird chirp" disappears with some use but, if not, I'll open it up and see if shifting bits helps or hinders. I used to be a hobbyist electronics nerd and I've opened both S9s and S8s before to change batteries.

Which brings me back to the S8 II Auto I gave away. You see, I gave it away to a friend whom I visited on the weekend. He asked me to change the starting pressure, which I did, and I looked at the runtime... over 21000 hours. Man, they don't build them like they used to. It's still going strong, although the two buttons were sticky.

From the lines of a classic Australian movies, Castle: "My name is Dale Kerrigan... and that is my story."

[recipefordisaster]

Can you tell me more about this "bird chirp"? I recently got a barely used low hour AirSense 10 and I would say it has a "whiny sigh" at the start of exhale that definitely goes up the tube. I have the machine under the bed blocked in by pillows, except the air intake area, and I hear it just fine in the tube. It’s not too loud, but because it’s biphasic and goes with my breathing, it makes me crazy. Nothing has helped.

[Hang Fire]

initially put it on for $200. I got a buyer for a bit under $400

It turns out this buyer lives in rural Australia and in a not-so-well-to-do area. Not only that, he borrowed money to afford the machine. Me? I'm definitely not Bill Gates, but I work in IT and earn a reasonable wage. I felt about *this* small {tiny gap between thumb and index finger} selling the fellow a 12500 hour machine that may have between 1-3 years of worth.

How small do you feel for doubling the price on the poor guy?

[Pugsy]

Can you tell me more about this "bird chirp"? I recently got a barely used low hour AirSense 10 and I would say it has a "whiny sigh" at the start of exhale that definitely goes up the tube. I have the machine under the bed blocked in by pillows, except the air intake area, and I hear it just fine in the tube. It’s not too loud, but because it’s biphasic and goes with my breathing, it makes me crazy. Nothing has helped.

As someone who has had various S9 machines and experienced the dreaded "bird chirp" or hoot owl thing with a few of them...it was always on inhale and not exhale and I have never heard it with the various AirSense/AirCurve machines I have had experience with which now number 5 I guess it is.
We have a quite lengthy thread deep in the archives here from people who did experience this rather weird noise and if my memory serves me correctly it was almost always an inhale thing. If you do a forum search for "bird call" you can probably find it.

[BanjoPaterson]

initially put it on for $200. I got a buyer for a bit under $400

It turns out this buyer lives in rural Australia and in a not-so-well-to-do area. Not only that, he borrowed money to afford the machine. Me? I'm definitely not Bill Gates, but I work in IT and earn a reasonable wage. I felt about *this* small {tiny gap between thumb and index finger} selling the fellow a 12500 hour machine that may have between 1-3 years of worth.

How small do you feel for doubling the price on the poor guy?

It was an auction with a starting bid of $200 and other people bid, which pushed up the price. I didn't double the price. There were about 3 or 4 bidders. I didn't know the bidder was from a poor area until he sent me an email with his address and telling me he borrowed money.

However, when I was aware that the fellow was new to CPAP, needed a CPAP, and borrowed money; I sent him my less used machine instead of the one that I photographed (serial number and run hours in the auction). Not expecting cheers, but not pitchforks either as I didn't "double the price".

It was just an unexpected outcome and muddied what should have been a straightforward transaction.

[BanjoPaterson]

Can you tell me more about this "bird chirp"? I recently got a barely used low hour AirSense 10 and I would say it has a "whiny sigh" at the start of exhale that definitely goes up the tube. I have the machine under the bed blocked in by pillows, except the air intake area, and I hear it just fine in the tube. It’s not too loud, but because it’s biphasic and goes with my breathing, it makes me crazy. Nothing has helped.

As someone who has had various S9 machines and experienced the dreaded "bird chirp" or hoot owl thing with a few of them...it was always on inhale and not exhale and I have never heard it with the various AirSense/AirCurve machines I have had experience with which now number 5 I guess it is.
We have a quite lengthy thread deep in the archives here from people who did experience this rather weird noise and if my memory serves me correctly it was almost always an inhale thing. If you do a forum search for "bird call" you can probably find it.

Thank you Pugsy - I trawled through a number of threads with the hope that a fix would be in place... but no such luck. I've opened them up and the only thing I can see that may cause this (assuming all parts are identical in manufacture) is the position of the fan (and its vents) with respect to the inflow and baffle. The fan can be rotated around an axis with some play in the power cable, so it could be that. Otherwise, ear plugs.

I'm glad that your new machines aren't giving you grief I used to post here a while back and I haven't, but it's always a pleasure to read your posts (and Chicago Granny).

[Pugsy]

I trawled through a number of threads with the hope that a fix would be in place... but no such luck.

There was never a fix for the hooty owl bird chirping thing as far as I ever saw.
No one could ever really isolate a for sure causation much less a fix for it. It did seem to be more pronounced or potentially annoying the higher someone's pressures might be. Some people heard it. Some people didn't. It's hard to say if one person's hearing just hears different tones differently than others or if it was related to some problem in the design of the machine.
I tried all sorts of experiments in an effort to figure out something that would lessen the annoyance and I never could consistently alter the noise enough to put a finger on a change.

To be honest...with my first S9 machine I didn't really notice the noise all that much until all the hooplah started about it and THEN I found it present all the time and rather annoying. I guess I initially just tuned it out or something.
That was my first S9 machine. Subsequent S9 models it was either non existent or so minor it wasn't a factor OR maybe I just got used to it again. I used to laugh and tell people that I didn't have a problem with the bird calls until someone drew attention to them in the first place. After that I sure as heck noticed them.

The only thing that I could sometimes tell any difference with was my pressures that I experimented with and the force of my own inhale and exhale. The sound was reduced significantly when I made a concerted effort to breathe more shallowly on inhale....but that's not my normal way of breathing so it was hard to make a concerted effort to change my breathing just for that reason.
I am assuming something related to the innards of the machine when we inhale. Maybe related to the fan or whatever is inside the machine. I don't do machine tear downs because it is well known in my house that I only tear down....I can never put anything back together once I take it apart so I simply don't go there.

My best guess....minor flaw is some little something that pertains to inhale and maybe a slight imperfection in production or something.
It wasn't consistent. Not everyone experienced it... heck I didn't have it to the same degree myself...Maybe something as simple and a fan blade angle or whatever. ResMed never ever acknowledged it though....never.
I myself...just guessing. It was something but no one ever could isolate it that I ever saw.

Has something similar cropped up with a few AirSense machines.....it wouldn't be impossible I suppose because nothing is impossible but noisy AirSense/AirCurve 10 machines aren't nearly as common as the S9 bird call machines were.

[BanjoPaterson]

Can you tell me more about this "bird chirp"? I recently got a barely used low hour AirSense 10 and I would say it has a "whiny sigh" at the start of exhale that definitely goes up the tube. I have the machine under the bed blocked in by pillows, except the air intake area, and I hear it just fine in the tube. It’s not too loud, but because it’s biphasic and goes with my breathing, it makes me crazy. Nothing has helped.

Hi Recipe - I'm not too familiar with the AirSense as I only tried one for a week and it wasn't for me. I've opened Resmed S9 and S8 models (to change the CR2032 batteries) and had a jiggery poke. The fan in the S9 is in a solid plastic mount and it definitely not serviceable. The fan has vents, which I assume are to disperse air on exhale. There is a cable from the fan that connects it to the mainboard, and some soft plastic padding. I suspect that (assuming the fan isn't vibrating or resonating or the like) on exhale the position of the fan affects the air dispersement. Then it may be possible to set up some wave that might resonate through the vent or up the tube.

I believe it's unlikely to be the fan since (I believe) it would be noisy on all operations (inhale or exhale) if it's imbalanced.

With respect to the AirSense -- I haven't even looked at them and don't know if you'd even want to open them up. My plan is to spend a Saturday, open up the S9 and rotate the fan a millimeter one way or the other and see if it helps. As you may have read, sometimes the problem in the S9 "goes away", and I've no idea why that should be.

[Pugsy]

BTW....I do appreciate what you did with the guy who won the auction for your first higher hour machine.
Sounds like something I would do if I was in a similar situation.

Question...what did the guy do for a mask? We all know they aren't cheap either. Do you know what kind of mask he is going to try to use? Please see if you can find out and let me know. I might have something to donate that would help out and I don't mind mailing it to Australia on my dime. Please contact me via private message about this. I don't have much donated inventory right now but I do have a few items and maybe what I have available would help out.

[BanjoPaterson]

I trawled through a number of threads with the hope that a fix would be in place... but no such luck.

There was never a fix for the hooty owl bird chirping thing as far as I ever saw.

....

am assuming something related to the innards of the machine when we inhale. Maybe related to the fan or whatever is inside the machine. I don't do machine tear downs because it is well known in my house that I only tear down....I can never put anything back together once I take it apart so I simply don't go there.

I can take apart small electronic devices and I used to build my own PCs, but my wife's forbidden me from both plumbing and power tools. After drilling hundreds holes in the house to hang a few pictures, it's amazing our walls have any structural rigidity.

[Pugsy]

my wife's forbidden me from both plumbing and power tools.

Smart woman. Now I do play with power tools but I don't take anything apart anymore.
The last thing was the kitchen faucet just to change the cartridge....I was so sure I could handle that but I couldn't. Totally screwed it up and even hubby couldn't figure out what I did wrong and though he swears I did it on purpose so I could go buy another $300 faucet...I really didn't want to do that. It wasn't a cheap faucet that I screwed up...it was a really expensive faucet which of course had to be replaced by a more expensive faucet. I really had better uses for those dollars.

So now I have had to promise to not take anything apart. If it's not obviously broken...I don't try to fix it. Now if it is obviously broken then it's fair game. This wasn't the first time I took something apart and couldn't get it back together.