OT: COVID-19: Is a CPAP/BiPAP machine a respirator?

[AHI]

I read that if hospitals get short on respirators/ventilators for COVID-19 (the novel coronavirus , they will first share the machine between two patients. The second thing they will do is use CPAP's and BiPAP's for respirators. Is this true? If so, I am relieved, since I already have my own CPAP to use in case I get COVID-19.

[Goofproof]

No, but you are very good at believing crap posted on the internet. Jim

I will continue to use mine, but I won't be buddying up on one..

[Pugsy]

No, regular cpap/apap/bilevel machines are not respirators or ventilators. They lack the power to be able to force you to breathe if you don't/can't breathe on your own.

Now they might make your breathing a little easier with some setting tweaking but you still have to initiate the breath or be able to breathe on your own. They can't breathe for you.

Now there are a couple of really high end (cost wise) bilevel machines that can be used as a non invasive ventilator because they have some special settings that can force a person to breathe but it is very unlikely that you would be given that type of machine unless you have a proven need for what it does right now.

[AHI]

No, but you are very good at believing crap posted on the internet. Jim

I will continue to use mine, but I won't be buddying up on one..

I read this in the NY Times:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/12/us/h ... irus.html

"Another unanticipated development: More moderate forms of breathing support, such as nebulizers and Bipap machines, should spare ventilators for the worse cases, but those technologies cannot be used on coronavirus patients because they risk releasing particles into the air."

It seems like BiPAP can be used in certain cases?

[AHI]

No, regular cpap/apap/bilevel machines are not respirators or ventilators. They lack the power to be able to force you to breathe if you don't/can't breathe on your own.

Now they might make your breathing a little easier with some setting tweaking but you still have to initiate the breath or be able to breathe on your own. They can't breathe for you.

Now there are a couple of really high end (cost wise) bilevel machines that can be used as a non invasive ventilator because they have some special settings that can force a person to breathe but it is very unlikely that you would be given that type of machine unless you have a proven need for what it does right now.

Ok, I learn something new everyday. Thanks for the info Pugsy.

[Lifeisabeach]

No, but you are very good at believing crap posted on the internet. Jim

I will continue to use mine, but I won't be buddying up on one..

I read this in the NY Times:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/12/us/h ... irus.html

"Another unanticipated development: More moderate forms of breathing support, such as nebulizers and Bipap machines, should spare ventilators for the worse cases, but those technologies cannot be used on coronavirus patients because they risk releasing particles into the air."

It seems like BiPAP can be used in certain cases?

They didn't cite their source for that little tidbit, which means it could be random speculation from Reddit for all we know. It's pretty much nonsense.

Actually that's almost exactly what it is. I plucked that phrase from the article and plugged it into Google. That writer took it word-for-word from other garbage sources, one going back two months. Pffft. Reporters. Experts on absolutely nothing.
https://www.google.com/search?client=sa ... CAs&uact=5

[raisedfist]

No, but you are very good at believing crap posted on the internet. Jim

I will continue to use mine, but I won't be buddying up on one..

I read this in the NY Times:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/12/us/h ... irus.html

"Another unanticipated development: More moderate forms of breathing support, such as nebulizers and Bipap machines, should spare ventilators for the worse cases, but those technologies cannot be used on coronavirus patients because they risk releasing particles into the air."

It seems like BiPAP can be used in certain cases?

Well true ventilators have the capability to have a closed loop circuit design, meaning it has a separate exhaust valve. By using a bi-level, you need a vented mask, meaning expired air is being vented out of the front of the mask, into the air. Whether or not that's harmful to others, IDK.

[rick blaine]

raisedfist wrote:

"Whether or not that's harmful to others, IDK."

The official guidance from the government's website currently being given to UK hospital doctors is that they must put on Personal Protection Equipment (PPE) when entering the room of a patient on Bi-level or CPAP because those machines emit droplets into the room air.

And there are hospital doctors writing to the newspapers, such as The Guardian, saying that this PPE is in short supply, and they are being asked to see patients with only basic masks.

The government is saying they are doing everything they can to ramp up supply ....

Anyhoo, the short answer is that with Bi-level and CPAP, the breathed air goes back into the room, and is not filtered in any way.

[chunkyfrog]

Latest news: Ford motor company is ready to build ventilators for emergency use.

[palerider]

Latest news: Ford motor company is ready to build ventilators for emergency use.

The first vent with a V8!

[ChicagoGranny]

They didn't cite their source for that little tidbit, which means it could be random speculation from Reddit for all we know. It's pretty much nonsense.

Actually that's almost exactly what it is. I plucked that phrase from the article and plugged it into Google. That writer took it word-for-word from other garbage sources, one going back two months. Pffft. Reporters. Experts on absolutely nothing.
https://www.google.com/search?client=sa ... CAs&uact=5

Thank you, Beachie. I am a nonparticipating member in some forums run by scientists. They have a low opinion of NYT Science reporting.

[chunkyfrog]

Latest news: Ford motor company is ready to build ventilators for emergency use.

The first vent with a V8!

Converting mfg lines for war materials is something they have done before.

[Midwest_non_sleeper]

Latest news: Ford motor company is ready to build ventilators for emergency use.

The first vent with a V8!

Converting mfg lines for war materials is something they have done before.

And something I am absolutely in support of in a National emergency or crisis situation. I am usually a "small gov" type of guy, but when many, many lives are at risk...well, sometimes we have to adjust our ideological stance and accept that saving people's lives is the more important of the two.

[beautifuldreamer]

a friend of mine has a 2 year old daughter that was dealing with some major respiratory issues and they used a bipap to help her during the challenging time . . .

[Lifeisabeach]

No, but you are very good at believing crap posted on the internet. Jim

I will continue to use mine, but I won't be buddying up on one..

I read this in the NY Times:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/12/us/h ... irus.html

"Another unanticipated development: More moderate forms of breathing support, such as nebulizers and Bipap machines, should spare ventilators for the worse cases, but those technologies cannot be used on coronavirus patients because they risk releasing particles into the air."

It seems like BiPAP can be used in certain cases?

Well true ventilators have the capability to have a closed loop circuit design, meaning it has a separate exhaust valve. By using a bi-level, you need a vented mask, meaning expired air is being vented out of the front of the mask, into the air. Whether or not that's harmful to others, IDK.

Well if the alternative is no ventilation, then you are expelling the virus out of your mouth/nose and into the air anyway. It really is silly. And I very much doubt they would prefer to put anyone, coronavirus or not, on a ventilator unless their condition REQUIRES it, even if there were ventilators to spare. This simply isn't how healthcare works. If someone has a transmittable disease, there are isolation protocols to account for it already. Ventilators are serious life-sustaining machines to be on, requiring a much higher level of care and monitoring of the patient, and you simply don't do that unnecessarily. ESPECIALLY when facing a crisis situation and you have to be efficient with your resources and personnel.