Dreem 2 Headband Review

[slowriter]

I just recently bought this product (just released in the US) for help in optimizing my PAP therapy for the treatment of UARS.

Why?

With UARS, the main concern is hard-to-track micro-arousals, and impact on sleep quality.

Typically, we try to divine these things based on subjective feel, and on detailed evaluation of flow rate waveforms (reducing flow limitation, etc.). Both of these are imperfect proxies for what we really want to know: what's going on in our brains.

The Dreem provides a lot of that missing information.

How I am using it

Since it uses an EEG to derive information about sleep stages, etc, I am using it to correlate with information from my machine.

So here's a spreadsheet I am maintaining, where most of these data are coming from the Dreem.



I am using conditional formatting to help better visualize what I think I'm aiming for. This gives me a general view.

I can then zoom in on periods where Dreem is telling me I awake (which I don't always remember myself or register by turning off the machine) to see if there are any obvious patterns preceding those arousals (changes in sleep stage, for example).



Also, the percentage and continuity of of REM and deep sleep provides an objective measure of sleep quality.

Other Issues

• I see some general users complain about comfort, but being used to PAP headgear, it doesn't bother me at all
• I haven't yet had time to explore the features designed to help with insomnia

Current limitations

Following are a couple of key things I've asked them to address:

• has a pulse oximeter, but does not report the data
• no data export of hyponogram or EEG waveform data (would be awesome to be able to integrate with OSCAR)
• I trust the key hypnogram is accurate (certainly more so than other consumer trackers that don't have access to EEG data), but it is dependent on the signal quality of the sensors, which can be a little finicky in my experience depending on fit of the headband

Here's my referral code, which gives anyone using it a 10% discount, and (full disclosure) me a small compensation (if this is a problem, mods, feel free to delete this last section):

Code: Select all

HGZERMVAP

.

[jimbud]

Can I get a half dozen to go with fries?

JPB

[Auntducky59]

well, it could also be used to hold faulty headgear that is always slipping. It can replace your Scuzzi headband. Seriously, I am not knocking this product, but I have enough on my head with a chin strap & CPAP headgear, but I will probably check it out anyway.

[Auntducky59]

okay, I looked... and choked on the price.. it costs more than a SoClean machine! Not affordable for me, & It would not work for my type of mask (hose on the head) anyway. I will be declining.

[slowriter]

It's expensive, but in my case, the decline in my work productivity as a result of less-than-optimal treatment has a much bigger impact on my wallet in the end.

Also, not sure it will be successful (in fact, it probably won't be), but I did put in a claim with my insurance company for reimbursement, and cited its FDA approval.

I use the Bleep mask, so no headgear. But I think it would be fine (if maybe a bit awkward) to put the headgear on top of the Dreem headband.

[djams]

I just recently bought this product (just released in the US) for help in optimizing my PAP therapy for the treatment of UARS.

Thanks for posting this. I've looked at this headband online pretty recently. I'm very interested in sleep tracking devices.

Just knowing my sleeping position while looking at my OSCAR and Sleeptracker data would be fantastic. IMO.

I doubt that I'll ever pull the trigger on one though. It is spendy. As well, having used the Bleep since February this year, I'm certain that I'm no longer used to headgear.

I notice in your spreadsheet the headings "Awakenings" and "Awake Duration". But nothing for the micro arousals you mentioned. Is everything lumped into the "Awake" bucket?

I read the few testimonials from folks who have used this to successfully treat insomnia. The price of this device isn't outrageous at all for someone in that situation. Provided that it works, of course.

Anyways, appreciate the review and look forward to any updates.

[chunkyfrog]

Sounds a lot like the Zeo.
Cool idea, I bought a Zeo.
Used it about 5 months/got bored/put it away.
I can always pull out the Zeo if I need a fresh geek fest.

[Pugsy]

I also had sticker shock when I looked up this device a little while back.
It is what it is folks and until if/when supply and demand maybe brings the price down a bit....each person has to decide just how badly they want to know in more detail just how they slept or how this sort of device will help them and is it worth the cost.
I thought the Zeo was a bit too pricey for me.... and it was 1/3 this price.
But the Zeo went out of business.....

Sleep is big business nowadays....all sorts of "lets help you with your sleep" stuff out there and where there is money to be made there will be people trying to make it. Competition in the market would help get the price down and so far there's not a lot of competition in this particular area where actual EEG kind of stuff is used to give us sleep stage details. It's a tricky area for sure. Some devices like the FitBit will use motion and heart rate to guesstimate sleep and probably decent enough for government work. Not perfect for sure (I had one once and it would tell me I was sound asleep when I was up with the dog so I know they aren't perfectly accurate) but given what is available out there....better than nothing for sure.

Here I sit....the insomnia monster came for a visit after 5 hours of sleep....boy will my butt be dragging today and I foresee a nap in my future later today. When these sort of devices can actually help keep the insomnia monster away that is when I will get out my wallet.
For now I don't really need a device to tell me I slept poorly last night. My body already does a pretty good job of that right now.

But I do understand people like the OP here who is trying this device in an effort to better get a handle on just what is going on with his sleep in his situation with the UARS thing. There's not much out there for people like him/her in terms of helping with UARS kind of education. We use all the tools available if we can and in this situation when it comes to actual sleep stage recording....there's not a lot out there to choose from.

If you can afford it and it's important for a person to know in more detail....hey, go for it.
I just don't need to spend $500 to have a device confirm that the insomnia monster came for a visit last night. I already kinda know that little fact. Now when these devices can tell me how to keep that little SOB away...that's when I get my wallet out.

[slowriter]

I notice in your spreadsheet the headings "Awakenings" and "Awake Duration". But nothing for the micro arousals you mentioned. Is everything lumped into the "Awake" bucket?

This is unclear to me at the moment.

On the overall hypnogram, the wake periods I'm sure are those that are proper arousals, that probably last more than a minute or two. For me, that alone is helpful, because I still have this problem, and it sometimes screws up the CA reporting.

If I zoom in on the hypnogram, though, it will show shorter duration ones. Again, not sure the parameters there.

When I raised this with them they said they were working on app updates for this they said would drop soon. I suggested they distinguish awakenings from arousals.

I'll probably get on the phone with them in next week to ask a bundle of questions, and this will be one of them.

[slowriter]

Sounds a lot like the Zeo.
Cool idea, I bought a Zeo.
Used it about 5 months/got bored/put it away.
I can always pull out the Zeo if I need a fresh geek fest.

Yeah, I expect I may use it less as I do get a handle on this.

But my wife has some insomnia issues of her own. It's possible to share the same device among multiple users, so will be an option for her as well.

One thing I forgot to mention in original post is that I'm tracking these data in part to share with doctors. So far my main sleep doc (need to look for another one) seems to not accept my subjective impressions of what's working or not, and I've already done two sleep studies, which is enough. So this gives me some metrics to report to her.

[Miss Emerita]

Thanks for the review, slowriter. It seems as though something like your spreadsheet would be essential for improving sleep via adjusting pressures and other PAP variables. Could you say a little more about how you’re using the spreadsheet, or plan to?

[slowriter]

One other thing:

I started with a cheap Garmin device, because it has a pulse oximeter on it. The data from that led me to initial sleep study, which resulted in the UARS diagnosis.

The numbers the Dreem reports are quite a bit different. Saturday night, when I slept pretty well, Dreem says I had 1:38 of Deep Sleep, and 2:09 of REM. Garmin says 42:00 and 2:53 respectively.

[chunkyfrog]

Cpap/supplies . . . . .$$$
Oscar software . . . . .FREE
Discovering your doctor is a geek--like you . . . PRICELESS!

[slowriter]

Thanks for the review, slowriter. It seems as though something like your spreadsheet would be essential for improving sleep via adjusting pressures and other PAP variables. Could you say a little more about how you’re using the spreadsheet, or plan to?

Yeah.

So if you read my thread (though I haven't posted much lately), you can get a sense of the background.

For the entire (failed) trial CPAP period, I had good numbers (except for FL), but knew I wasn't sleeping well.

My assumption was I was continuing to experience substantial RERAs that were fragmenting my sleep (screwing up my sleep architecture).

Titration study (before I got the Dreem) confirmed this, and so I moved on to bilevel.

It has been really clear in the past few weeks that the PS number is key, and that I need it as close to 6 as possible, without yielding too many CSAs.

So the spreadsheet just allows me to see the relation between PS (and other pressure settings) and sleep quality metrics.

That alone isn't enough, but adds helpful information beyond what OSCAR provides.

My current assumption, based on this, is the titrated PS of 6 is a bit too high, and that 5.6 seems a better place to be (where I have it now). This does make some logical sense as I've moved from the n30i mask to the Bleep since the study, and get much fewer leaks.

If I had not had the benefit of the sleep study, my supposition is the numbers the Dreem would report using CPAP would show much lower percentage of and more fragment REM.

[slowriter]

... If I had not had the benefit of the sleep study, my supposition is the numbers the Dreem would report using CPAP would show much lower percentage of and more fragment REM.

I suppose I could test this hypothesis myself, but I'm sure you can understand I'd rather not!