Is this normal REM sleep?

mannsch · Post by **mannsch** » Sat Aug 31, 2019 6:33 am

Every night, I frequently get these instances of incredibly jagged breathing and the respiration rate spikes up to 30-50 per minute.

https://prnt.sc/ozzsbc

Here's a close up:

https://prnt.sc/ozzsgw

And a closer close up:

https://prnt.sc/ozzsnr

The breathing rate seems quite extreme and this doesn't seem to be happening at regular times -- the main pattern I can see is that it happens more frequently during the morning when it gets closer to waking up.

The breathing rate doesn't seem to measure higher than 50, but it looks like it may even be spiking up to above 50: https://prnt.sc/ozztme

Any idea what is going on here?

Dog Slobber · Post by **Dog Slobber** » Sat Aug 31, 2019 6:57 am

I don't think so.

REM typically last for about a 30 minutes about every 90 minutes and is typically about 20% of ones sleep (YMMV).

Yours doesn't resemble that at all.

My REM Sleep appears to be pretty visible in my breathing pattern. My apnea is also higher during REM.

Attached are multiple graphs where I have highlighted REM sleep. You can also see patterns of increased flow limitation correlated to my increased respiration rate attributed to REM.

Pugsy · Post by **Pugsy** » Sat Aug 31, 2019 7:21 am

Zoom in even closer on the breathing. I suspect the machine is counting the echos from the ballistocardiographic effect.
See this thread..scroll up to the top to start as it may take you to the middle.
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=175836&p=1305986&hi ... c#p1305986

and other past discussions
search.php?keywords=ballistocardiographic

It isn't REM related.

mannsch · Post by **mannsch** » Sat Aug 31, 2019 9:34 am

Here's maximum zoom: https://prnt.sc/p01kek

Does this clarify anything?

Ballistographic -- not sure I understand. Are you referring to an echo if the tube gets twisted in some way?

Pugsy · Post by **Pugsy** » Sat Aug 31, 2019 9:46 am

Has nothing to do with the tube being twisted.
Has to do with the software counting the times the inhale/exhale crosses the 0 axis line for breathing.. I can't explain it very well but software is counting a breath that isn't a complete breath.

Why the change in breathing so that the software double dips ...I don't know.

palerider · Post by **palerider** » Sat Aug 31, 2019 11:59 am

mannsch wrote: ↑
Sat Aug 31, 2019 9:34 am
Here's maximum zoom: https://prnt.sc/p01kek

Does this clarify anything?

Ballistographic -- not sure I understand. Are you referring to an echo if the tube gets twisted in some way?

Right click on the "flow rate" label, select 'dotted lines' and turn on the zero line.

Count breaths for a minute.

It looks like you're panting for some reason.

ballistocardiographic (you missed the cardio) it's when a person's heart beat shows up in their airflow, causing it to pulse with... their pulse. and sometimes it's strong enough to show up as fluctuations in the airflow, and the machine gets confused when those fluctuations cross the zero line.

chunkyfrog · Post by **chunkyfrog** » Sat Aug 31, 2019 12:02 pm

Tremors?
Or spasms?

mannsch · Post by **mannsch** » Sat Aug 31, 2019 1:32 pm

Here's a zoom showing the zero line on the flow rate graph: https://prnt.sc/p0428p

I'm counting what looks like 47 real breaths. Just a few can be explained by the line crossing the zero more twice in a single breath.

I don't have any history of seizures, spasms or panic attacks.

Edit: I just asked my girlfriend and she confirms that I definitely have these periods during sleep where I am panting and breathing really fast.

Pugsy · Post by **Pugsy** » Sat Aug 31, 2019 1:41 pm

If it is dream related it might be a good or bad dream but that doesn't necessarily equal REM sleep.
Did you know you can dream in any sleep stage?

mannsch · Post by **mannsch** » Sun Sep 01, 2019 7:03 am

No I didn't know that, I thought it was mostly during REM sleep.

Here's another night: https://prnt.sc/p0bleq

Shows many instances of extremely rapid breathing at 40-50 or higher :/

palerider · Post by **palerider** » Sun Sep 01, 2019 2:00 pm

mannsch wrote: ↑
Sun Sep 01, 2019 7:03 am
No I didn't know that, I thought it was mostly during REM sleep.

Here's another night: https://prnt.sc/p0bleq

Shows many instances of extremely rapid breathing at 40-50 or higher :/

Try lowering your EPR and let's see what happen

If you'd filled out your equipment profile, I wouldn't have to ask "what kind of mask are you using?"

Miss Emerita · Post by **Miss Emerita** » Sun Sep 01, 2019 8:06 pm

Next time you post a chart, could you include flow limitations and snores?

mannsch · Post by **mannsch** » Mon Sep 02, 2019 5:50 am

I have set up my equipment profile now. I am using the Airsense 10 Autoset and the Airtouch F20 full-face mask.

Here's last night: https://prnt.sc/p0p6h9
With snores and flow limitations: https://prnt.sc/p0p76e

I usually have zero snores when using the APAP, which is interesting because I am usually a big snorer.

There doesn't seem to be a clear correlation between the rapid breathing and flow limitations. But sometimes an apnea directly precedes the rapid breathing.

Is this normal REM sleep?

Is this normal REM sleep?

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