Dreamstation Humidifier Cleaning?

[dbreweur]

I was so diligent about cleaning my CPAP when I first started using it again (about two months ago when a different health condition flared) - but admittedly got lax with it. I haven't used it in roughly 2 weeks, which means I also haven't messed with the humidifier chamber/tank in as long (I feel gross even just saying that, like some sort of CPAP god is judging me or something )

When I cleaned it out last time, I used sink water and ivory soap (the water around here is actually pretty decent, not really hard) - and only ever use distilled water when I fill it up before using it at night. I'm not too worried about washing the mask or the tubing, but the humidifier chamber has me a bit on edge.

Should I run it through a cycle in the dishwater to be safe (is that even safe? No dishwashing detergent or anything, just the hot water; I'd hand wash afterwards) - or should I be okay to just dump whatever distilled water is still in the tank and do a handwashing with the sink/ivory soap?

[palerider]

I was so diligent about cleaning my CPAP when I first started using it again (about two months ago when a different health condition flared) - but admittedly got lax with it. I haven't used it in roughly 2 weeks, which means I also haven't messed with the humidifier chamber/tank in as long (I feel gross even just saying that, like some sort of CPAP god is judging me or something )

When I cleaned it out last time, I used sink water and ivory soap (the water around here is actually pretty decent, not really hard) - and only ever use distilled water when I fill it up before using it at night. I'm not too worried about washing the mask or the tubing, but the humidifier chamber has me a bit on edge.

Should I run it through a cycle in the dishwater to be safe (is that even safe? No dishwashing detergent or anything, just the hot water; I'd hand wash afterwards) - or should I be okay to just dump whatever distilled water is still in the tank and do a handwashing with the sink/ivory soap?

There's really no "safe".

The *ONLY* reason to use distilled water is the debatable "convenience" of not having to do a vinegar soak now and then to remove mineral buildup in the tank... It has nothing at all to do with safety.

Just clean it however you like to.

[dbreweur]

It didn't seem to have a strange smell or anything, and I didn't notice any sort of residue, so I just stuck the humidifier tank in a sink of hot water and ivory soap for awhile. I'll clean the tubing and mask before I use it tonight (I'm not terribly worried about those; It was the idea of standing water that was iffy)


Thanks for the reply, @palerider

[SnoringInOregon]

the humidifier chamber has me a bit on edge.

I only use distilled water in my humidifier. I dump the remaining water out every morning. What would have me "on edge" would be to know that water has been sitting in there for weeks.

My DME tech explained it to me this way about using fresh water there: Pour yourself a glass of water and set it on your nightstand. Would you feel comfortable drinking out of that glass after a few weeks? I wouldn't.

I buy a gallon of distilled water every few weeks. To me it's worth the price.

If I couldn't afford the distilled water, I personally would rather use tap water that I dumped out every day than use ancient distilled water.

As for cleaning the chamber, it is top rack dishwasher safe. I wash mine in there occasionally (less than once a week) along with dirty dishes, using dishwasher detergent not just hot water, and so far the chamber seems OK after a few years. I am a little bit anal about those things so I rinse the chamber with tap water after I take it out of the dishwasher to make sure there is no detergent residue on it. But we have very clean tapwater in the part of Oregon where I live. If I lived in a city that sourced its municipal water from the mouth of the Mississippi River then I'd probably be a little more concerned about what comes out of the tap.

[LSAT]

the humidifier chamber has me a bit on edge.

I only use distilled water in my humidifier. I dump the remaining water out every morning. What would have me "on edge" would be to know that water has been sitting in there for weeks.

My DME tech explained it to me this way about using fresh water there: Pour yourself a glass of water and set it on your nightstand. Would you feel comfortable drinking out of that glass after a few weeks? I wouldn't.

I buy a gallon of distilled water every few weeks. To me it's worth the price.

If I couldn't afford the distilled water, I personally would rather use tap water that I dumped out every day than use ancient distilled water.

As for cleaning the chamber, it is top rack dishwasher safe. I wash mine in there occasionally (less than once a week) along with dirty dishes, using dishwasher detergent not just hot water, and so far the chamber seems OK after a few years. I am a little bit anal about those things so I rinse the chamber with tap water after I take it out of the dishwasher to make sure there is no detergent residue on it. But we have very clean tapwater in the part of Oregon where I live. If I lived in a city that sourced its municipal water from the mouth of the Mississippi River then I'd probably be a little more concerned about what comes out of the tap.

Ridiculous....Why would water sit in a humidifier for weeks. Most people would run the tub dry in 2-3 days at the most.

[Okie bipap]

The only difference I can see in the glass of water sitting out for an extended period of time and the jug of distilled of water that lasts a few weeks is the water in the glass would evaporate more than the water in the jug would. Every time you open the distilled water jug, you let in more of the room air that the water in the glass is exposed to. We use distilled water in our machines because I don't want to clean mineral deposits out of the water reservoirs. Neither of us have ever used the dish washer save water reservoir. I just clean ours with warm water and dish soap once a month, or so. Mine is over 4 years old and my wife's is over two years old, and neither of us have contacted any sickness from our machines.

[palerider]

The only difference I can see in the glass of water sitting out for an extended period of time and the jug of distilled of water that lasts a few weeks is the water in the glass would evaporate more than the water in the jug would. Every time you open the distilled water jug, you let in more of the room air that the water in the glass is exposed to.

Very wise.

[SnoringInOregon]

Ridiculous....Why would water sit in a humidifier for weeks. Most people would run the tub dry in 2-3 days at the most.

Sigh.

There's an important concept for wise living. Some call it "Chesterton's Fence". Here is a wiki about it for your edification: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G._K._Che ... on's_fence

The relevance of Chesterton's fence to this discussion is that, instead of simply saying "ridiculous", you at least stop and think about it. E.g. to quote Chesterton: 'If you don't see the use of it, I certainly won't let you clear it away. Go away and think. Then, when you can come back and tell me that you do see the use of it, I may allow you to destroy it.'

If you had thought about the issue, or if you were reading previous discussions here about humidifiers, you would know that many people regularly top off their humidifiers with distilled water. Topping off a tub means that there's the same water in there for weeks at a time.

Also, at least on my machine, the Dreamstation, you shouldn't "run the tub dry". If you do that, you may damage the tub because the machine will continue to apply heat to an empty tub. It's not smart enough to know that the tub is empty.

Interestingly, the Dreamstation Go humidifier is smarter: "In the event you underfill or forget to fill the humidifier, our heater plate shutdown feature will take over to prevent dry, uncomfortable air from being delivered to you for the remainder of the night."

[palerider]

Ridiculous....Why would water sit in a humidifier for weeks. Most people would run the tub dry in 2-3 days at the most.

Sigh.

Indeed. It's almost as if some people are here simply to argue.

There's an important concept for wise living. Some call it "Chesterton's Fence". Here is a wiki about it for your edification: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G._K._Che ... on's_fence

The relevance of Chesterton's fence to this discussion is that, instead of simply saying "ridiculous", you at least stop and think about it. E.g. to quote Chesterton: 'If you don't see the use of it, I certainly won't let you clear it away. Go away and think. Then, when you can come back and tell me that you do see the use of it, I may allow you to destroy it.'

An excellent thing, if one is only interested in argument for the sake of argument.

If you had thought about the issue, or if you were reading previous discussions here about humidifiers, you would know that many people regularly top off their humidifiers with distilled water. Topping off a tub means that there's the same water in there for weeks at a time.

You see, though, that's a ludicrous comment, it's patently absurd... it's "in error", or to put it simply, you're proceeding from an defective supposition, to wit. "if you are topping off a tub every night, then the same water CANNOT STILL BE IN THERE, otherwise, there would be no need to top it up.

Hence, the appropriateness of simply dismissing your dubious 'contribution' out of hand.

Now, most of the minerals and other impurities will be there, because they're left behind when the water evaporates into the airstream, which is why most people do rinse out their tanks on an at least occasional basis, but very few go for "weeks".

Also, at least on my machine, the Dreamstation, you shouldn't "run the tub dry". If you do that, you may damage the tub because the machine will continue to apply heat to an empty tub. It's not smart enough to know that the tub is empty.

Irrelevant to the subject at hand... how can one 'run the tub dry' if the water's in there for weeks?

Interestingly, the Dreamstation Go humidifier is smarter: "In the event you underfill or forget to fill the humidifier, our heater plate shutdown feature will take over to prevent dry, uncomfortable air from being delivered to you for the remainder of the night."

Also, irrelevant... unless, I guess, you're just here to argue.

[USMCVet]

Ridiculous....Why would water sit in a humidifier for weeks. Most people would run the tub dry in 2-3 days at the most.

Sigh.

Indeed. It's almost as if some people are here simply to argue.

There's an important concept for wise living. Some call it "Chesterton's Fence". Here is a wiki about it for your edification: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G._K._Che ... on's_fence

The relevance of Chesterton's fence to this discussion is that, instead of simply saying "ridiculous", you at least stop and think about it. E.g. to quote Chesterton: 'If you don't see the use of it, I certainly won't let you clear it away. Go away and think. Then, when you can come back and tell me that you do see the use of it, I may allow you to destroy it.'

An excellent thing, if one is only interested in argument for the sake of argument.

If you had thought about the issue, or if you were reading previous discussions here about humidifiers, you would know that many people regularly top off their humidifiers with distilled water. Topping off a tub means that there's the same water in there for weeks at a time.

You see, though, that's a ludicrous comment, it's patently absurd... it's "in error", or to put it simply, you're proceeding from an defective supposition, to wit. "if you are topping off a tub every night, then the same water CANNOT STILL BE IN THERE, otherwise, there would be no need to top it up.

Hence, the appropriateness of simply dismissing your dubious 'contribution' out of hand.

Now, most of the minerals and other impurities will be there, because they're left behind when the water evaporates into the airstream, which is why most people do rinse out their tanks on an at least occasional basis, but very few go for "weeks".

Also, at least on my machine, the Dreamstation, you shouldn't "run the tub dry". If you do that, you may damage the tub because the machine will continue to apply heat to an empty tub. It's not smart enough to know that the tub is empty.

Irrelevant to the subject at hand... how can one 'run the tub dry' if the water's in there for weeks?

Interestingly, the Dreamstation Go humidifier is smarter: "In the event you underfill or forget to fill the humidifier, our heater plate shutdown feature will take over to prevent dry, uncomfortable air from being delivered to you for the remainder of the night."

Also, irrelevant... unless, I guess, you're just here to argue.

There is some truth to the same water being in there for weeks by the act of topping off the reservoir. Once you mix in new water the old water isn't evaporated first . Furthermore the I believe the argument here is that the OP was worried about things growing in the water. So if you continually add more water your maintaining that habitat so to speak for nasties to grow.

That said off mine and don't dry it for weeks at a time with no issues on my end using both distilled and tap water.

[palerider]

There is some truth to the same water being in there for weeks by the act of topping off the reservoir. Once you mix in new water the old water isn't evaporated first . Furthermore the I believe the argument here is that the OP was worried about things growing in the water. So if you continually add more water your maintaining that habitat so to speak for nasties to grow.

That said off mine and don't dry it for weeks at a time with no issues on my end using both distilled and tap water.

And yet, the OP's question was asked and answered, apparently to their satisfaction, and then a few days later someone decided to come by and pontificate with ridiculous statements, then up the ante.

As far as 'nasties to grow', some actual science says that there's really nothing to worry about, even if something did grow in the water, (and, of course, stuff grows in water).

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5611769/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3716664/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16236866

[USMCVet]

There is some truth to the same water being in there for weeks by the act of topping off the reservoir. Once you mix in new water the old water isn't evaporated first . Furthermore the I believe the argument here is that the OP was worried about things growing in the water. So if you continually add more water your maintaining that habitat so to speak for nasties to grow.

That said off mine and don't dry it for weeks at a time with no issues on my end using both distilled and tap water.

And yet, the OP's question was asked and answered, apparently to their satisfaction, and then a few days later someone decided to come by and pontificate with ridiculous statements, then up the ante.

As far as 'nasties to grow', some actual science says that there's really nothing to worry about, even if something did grow in the water, (and, of course, stuff grows in water).

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5611769/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3716664/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16236866

Have you seen this one https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2556912/ ? That said even though it contradicts one of your articles I think if it was such a big deal it would be more apparent. It's probably why there are extra precautions with people with weakend immune systems.

[palerider]

Have you seen this one https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2556912/ ? That said even though it contradicts one of your articles I think if it was such a big deal it would be more apparent. It's probably why there are extra precautions with people with weakend immune systems.

Interesting that they selected two bacteria that are "ubiquitous in the environment" to use for the test.

How effectively was the input air filtered in these tests? were the bacteria actually sucked into the intake and not transferred from the tank?

According to the two later studies already cited... that is quite possibly the case.

When study x in 2007 says "we spotted stuff" and studies y and z from 2013 and 2017 says "nah", which way does that sway your thinking?

[HoseCrusher]

The big difference between these tests is the flow rate. The 2007 test was done at a flow rate of 60 liters per minute for 90 minutes. The test done in 2005 was done at 31 - 46 liters per minute for an undisclosed period of time.

The test that showed an aerosol is formed is at a flow rate roughly 30% higher than the other test.

To visualize this remove your hose from your machine, get a good light source and concentrate it on the water in the humidifier. Turn the machine on. You will see the water in the humidifier dancing around. This is how the aerosol is formed.

If you can get your machine to run for 90 minutes, you can position a paper towel near the outlet and after 90 minutes check to see if it is damp. If it is damp an aerosol was formed and creepy crawly stuff in the humidifier water can migrate up your hose.

The next part of the test is to reduce the size of the outlet hole to represent the flow you use each night. Once again examine the water in the humidifier tank to see if it is dancing around. Once again put a paper towel in the airstream to see if it gets damp over a period of 90 minutes. If the paper towel remains dry no aerosol was formed and the creepy crawly stuff in the humidifier water will stay in the water and have no influence on you.

At high flow rates the water is dancing around and an aerosol can be formed. At low flow rates the water just sits there and evaporates. The take away is to avoid large leaks. You can also keep the amount of creepy crawly stuff in your humidifier tank to very low levels.

[palerider]

The big difference between these tests is the flow rate. The 2007 test was done at a flow rate of 60 liters per minute for 90 minutes. The test done in 2005 was done at 31 - 46 liters per minute for an undisclosed period of time.

The test that showed an aerosol is formed is at a flow rate roughly 30% higher than the other test.

To visualize this remove your hose from your machine, get a good light source and concentrate it on the water in the humidifier. Turn the machine on. You will see the water in the humidifier dancing around. This is how the aerosol is formed.

If you can get your machine to run for 90 minutes, you can position a paper towel near the outlet and after 90 minutes check to see if it is damp. If it is damp an aerosol was formed and creepy crawly stuff in the humidifier water can migrate up your hose.

The next part of the test is to reduce the size of the outlet hole to represent the flow you use each night. Once again examine the water in the humidifier tank to see if it is dancing around. Once again put a paper towel in the airstream to see if it gets damp over a period of 90 minutes. If the paper towel remains dry no aerosol was formed and the creepy crawly stuff in the humidifier water will stay in the water and have no influence on you.

At high flow rates the water is dancing around and an aerosol can be formed. At low flow rates the water just sits there and evaporates. The take away is to avoid large leaks. You can also keep the amount of creepy crawly stuff in your humidifier tank to very low levels.

Absent of fairly large leaks, you shouldn't hit 60lpm flow... most masks max out around 50@20cm pressure.

So, another 'study' of dubious use.