SAG, MattMan, KansasRT ???

Slinky · Post by **Slinky** » Sun Feb 18, 2007 3:22 pm

My question is about the Resmed - and the Respironics - integrated humidifiers. Do you know how the heating of the integrated humidifier is determined? Is it a set timing thing or do they have a temperature sensor or what?

The reason I ask: bearing in mind I am in Michigan and we're having a pretty good cold snap. AND I've returned one Humidaire 3i as defective and have read of 5 others who have as well. (I'm having the same situation w/my replacement Humidaire 3i so now do NOT believe either my original or this one was/is defective).

I've had a devil of a time with COLD air being blown up my snozz by my S8 Elite. Not all the time. But on an intermittent basis. And I DO mean COLD. Uncomfortably and even painfully COLD.

In checking thru my nightly stats and graphs I am encountering a rhythm and pattern to my hypopneas. They start out of rather short duration and lengthen in duration for an hour, then drop off and begin building in duration again on a regular one hour cycle. This occurs thru out the entire night.

With a pressure change to 8 cms my apneas are down to 0.1% or so of the entire night but the hypopneas can get absolutely out of sight in numbers. Well, as high as 25.4 altho usually not quite that bad, more in the low teens. The hypopneas almost never last longer than 30 seconds at their peak length at the end of an hour of sleep. This same pattern has occurred since starting xPAP therapy at 6 cms of pressure altho not to these extremes since the advent of this cold snap. (I started xPAP therapy in early Oct 2006).

Whachoo think? I've got the Humidaire 3i turned as high as it will go, right to the maximum 6.

I'm thinking a hose cover isn't going to cut the mustard and that I'm gonna need a heated hose for the winter months maybe. But mostly I'm curious about the heating timing method for these machines w/the integrated humidifiers - especially Resmed's since it is a Resmed set up that I have.

And another question: is there such a thing as a portable type of EEG where overnight arousals could be determined at home on the order of the overnight recording oximeters?

Linda3032 · Post by **Linda3032** » Sun Feb 18, 2007 3:37 pm

I'm wondering if your heating plate for the humidifier is on the blink. It heats the water. The air blows over the water picking up warm moist air. But, even if it was on the blink, the water should stay fairly warm. So why would you get "cold" air blowing? Too weird.

You probably need the unit checked out by the DME.

Yes, I definitely think you need a heated hose for winter use.

WillSucceed · Post by **WillSucceed** » Sun Feb 18, 2007 3:47 pm

Linda wrote:

Yes, I definitely think you need a heated hose for winter use.

AMEN to that, Linda. I don't know why I waited so long to get a heated hose (whacks self on forehead) as it has been a huge increase to my comfort.

pedroski · Post by **pedroski** » Sun Feb 18, 2007 5:01 pm

In checking thru my nightly stats and graphs I am encountering a rhythm and pattern to my hypopneas. They start out of rather short duration and lengthen in duration for an hour, then drop off and begin building in duration again on a regular one hour cycle. This occurs thru out the entire night.

Hi Slinky,

What you are describing is how the machine scores hypopneas. The definition of a hypopnea is a 50% reduction in air flow for more than 10 s, followed by a 4% desaturation, and/or arousal. What we need to know is the number of events that are occurring per hour. Once you have had for example 5 hypopneas, and don't have anymore, then your score for that hour is 5, so the line will stay at 5 until the end of the hour. Because you are then at the start of a a new hour, it will return to zero and start again. It doesn't constantly fluctuate the way the pressure chart does.

If you look at my example I have posted, you can see that between 2:00 and 3:00 in the morning I had a couple of hypopneas but then no more for the hour, so the line remains at the level until the end of the hour and then drops to zero. Between 1:00 & 2:00, 4:00 & 5:00 and 5:00 & 6:00 am the hypopneas keep climbing until the end of the hour and then reset.

Hope this helps.

Peter

Slinky · Post by **Slinky** » Sun Feb 18, 2007 5:06 pm

Ahhhhhhhhh! THANK YOU, Pedroski!!! A whole lot! THAT explains things then, the "rhythm" of the hypopneas in the graph. TOLD you guys I "ain't" so hot at reading and understanding graphs!!!

Another mystery for this poor old brain solved!!!

pedroski · Post by **pedroski** » Sun Feb 18, 2007 5:20 pm

TOLD you guys I "ain't" so hot at reading and understanding graphs!!!

It's not that you are not good at understanding graphs, I asked my clinician why the charts did that and that's the only reason I know. Now you know and you can tell the next guy.

Peter

Slinky · Post by **Slinky** » Sun Feb 18, 2007 5:23 pm

And here I thought you were sooooo brilliant!!

Well, still, you did have the presence of mind to question it with your clinician .....

Shucks, you shouldn't have ratted on yourself, Peter!!! Anyway, thanks again. I just appreciate knowing the reason.

JimW · Post by **JimW** » Sun Feb 18, 2007 9:57 pm

By observation, I would say that the ResMed 3i cycles on and off via some sort of thermostat. When it's turned to 'full on', it stays on longer than if it's at a lower setting. (The light glowing brighter indicates the element is on, I think.) Seems that the consensus is that the stand-alone heated humidifiers far exceed the ability of the integrated ones in providing good levels of humidity. My 3i is inadequate at present without additional use of room humidification.

DreamStalker · Post by **DreamStalker** » Sun Feb 18, 2007 10:02 pm

Yep ... Peter is absolutley correct about how to read hypops on the Resmend charts. The higher the blue humps go within an hour interval, the more hypops you had in that hour.

rested gal · Post by **rested gal** » Sun Feb 18, 2007 10:32 pm

I've not had experience with the 3i humidifier, but the two H2i heated humidifiers I used with several resmed machines definitely did not put out a satisfactory amount of warmed humidified air at all for me.

Both the F&P HC 150 standalone and the Respironics integrated heated humidifiers I've used put out considerably more heated humidification at the halfway adjustment mark than the resmed 2i humidifiers did even when turned all the way up. That's been my experience with them, anyway. Might not be so for everyone.

Slinky · Post by **Slinky** » Mon Feb 19, 2007 5:26 am

Ahhh, RestedGal to the rescue too!! Thanks, RG. I've wondered about the Respironics integrated humidifiers as I've only read of one person having problems w/their Respironics integrated humidifier not being sufficient whereas I've seen 5 others post about the Humidaire 3i not being sufficient in cold weather. By the way, I just noticed that I've failed to mention I do have several of hubby's thick hunting socks (the holey ones) along the full length of my 6' hose.

blarg · Post by **blarg** » Mon Feb 19, 2007 6:29 am

It's also worth mentioning that with a heated hose, more of the humidity will actually make it to your airway, regardless of which humidifier it's coming out of.

roster · Post by **roster** » Mon Feb 19, 2007 6:34 am

[quote="blarg"]It's also worth mentioning that with a heated hose, more of the humidity will actually make it to your airway, regardless of which humidifier it's coming out of.

joeyv20 · Post by **joeyv20** » Mon Feb 19, 2007 6:38 am

Hi, I am still seriously considering purchase of an HC 150 stand alone humdifier. I am wondering about cleaning the water chamber, it does not appear to be easy to get to to really give it a good cleaning, it also looks like it might be a bit challenging to get it dried out. How often do you folks that use the HC150 replace the chamber?

Thanks!

Joey

Slinky · Post by **Slinky** » Mon Feb 19, 2007 8:02 am

The gentleman who loaned me his HC 150 suggested that after cleaning the tank and draining it as much as possible to gently twist and stuff a dry wash cloth thru one of the holes and turn it as much as possible to dry it as best I could. That worked pretty good. Altho I had visions of losing one of my really thin wash clothes into the tank and not being able to get it out! Never happened. I only used distilled water so didn't have to clean it all that often. I also then let it sit upside down but w/the holes not blocked so it could finish air drying before I used it again that night. Worked for me.

And thank you, blarg and rooster. I only once had any condensation at all inside my xPAP hose and, frankly, I don't remember if that was w/the Humidaire 3i or the HC 100. My guess is that it was w/the HC 100.