Mouth leakage / FFM issues

[David1447]

Something that's really holding me back with my therapy is leaking.

I drool over my mouth tape when using my nasal pillows mask. I've tried training myself to rest my tongue on the roof of my mouth to no avail.

I have an iVolve FFM that works well. But it scrapes the heck out of the bridge of my nose. Bandage seems to semi-work, there are still leaks.

I'm driving to look at the DreamWear full face mask in a few days in hopes of it solving this issue. Until then, tonight I'll either tape my mouth to oblivion or deal with a bloodied bridge of nose from the FFM tomorrow, I don't know what's the lesser of these two evils yet.

Anybody have any advice I might've missed regarding mouth sealing or FFM seal? I've thought about making a home-made FFM liner, (like the ones at padacheek or remzzz) but don't really understand how fabric improves seal, rather than hinder it. Anybody have experience with that?

Edit: Made a makeshift liner. Actually seems pretty good. The seal is worse, but I can tighten more without it being so painful on my nose and in general. Photo attached. Stay tuned for an update tomorrow on how the night went.

[grayghost4]

I had all the same problems when I started cpap a few years back.
I now use an Amara View full face mask .... never touches the bridge of the nose.
I also use a boil and bite mouth guard/snore stopper, and a 4 in. cervical collar to keep my jaw up and my mouth closed.
I know it sounds like a lot of trouble .... but it works for me

[David1447]

I had all the same problems when I started cpap a few years back.
I now use an Amara View full face mask .... never touches the bridge of the nose.
I also use a boil and bite mouth guard/snore stopper, and a 4 in. cervical collar to keep my jaw up and my mouth closed.
I know it sounds like a lot of trouble .... but it works for me

Whatever works, works. I've been using a tongue stabilizer a while back with the FFM before it started cracking into my nose bridge, so I get what you're saying.

I've outlined, for now, my options:

1) makeshift liner - due check tonight
2) similar to your amara view, a dreamwear full face, also doesn't touch the bridge of the nose
3) a cloth mask like "SleepWeaver Anew Full Face Cloth Mask"
4) a "total" face mask like Respironic's FitLife. Looks a little ridiculous I guess, but if it'll work, it'll work.

[klm49]

I didn't have much luck with mask liners, seemed to make the leaks worse for me. I bought several different liners to no avail.
I would think that a cotton sock might be too thick of a material to make a liner out of. Maybe try an old shirt?

[Pugsy]

I would think that a cotton sock might be too thick of a material to make a liner out of. Maybe try an old shirt?

An old worn out thin Tshirt seems to be the DIY liner of most people's choice.
I have no personal experience with any of them though...never used FFM or a nasal cushion mask and didn't need one.
I do have experience with nasal pillow barrel cozies...OMG so comfy and I while I used mainly for rain out prevention I do think it also help a bit with mask movement leaks. The material Karen at Pad a cheek uses for the barrel cozies feels like silk against the skin.

[Okie bipap]

I have made several liners out of an old, well-used tee shirt. I have also used knit paint rags I purchased at Lowes. Both kinds of material work very well.

[David1447]

I have made several liners out of an old, well-used tee shirt. I have also used knit paint rags I purchased at Lowes. Both kinds of material work very well.

I'm going to go to a seamstress and check what type of stuff I could make there. Maybe one fabric would be better than the other. I'm guessing something semi breathable and stretchy.

Update for tonight: I've had insane leaks. Pressure went up from 9 to 12.5 in the mask, which I wonder if the machine compensated for, because leaks were in the 150L range, and total volume averaged around 300, so I'd expect to see half the pressure from 10-14 (current setting).

Funny thing is, I know a good night from a bad night. I'm a lot more anxious after a bad night. I eat like crazy. This was not a bad night.

I've decided to settle on FFM indefinitely. It'll take some time to find a setup that works for me, I'm certain, but it seems the success rate with FFM is miles higher than my nasal pillows mask. It's a shame, it's a lot nicer to sleep with just two prongs in your nose and nothing else.

I've arranged to meet with the dreamwear ffm seller on Sunday. Pretty excited and full of hope. Let's see if it's worth the $.

Thank you to anybody who's listening. I'm writing this to make a bit of order from this mess I'm experiencing, but if anybody can get anything out of it, all the better.

[djams]

Real quick before I head off to work - are you aware that CPAP.com has 30 day mask insurance on most masks? You can try new mask and return it if it doesn't work out. I'm not familiar with the details of this (is there a limit?, etc...), but this is what I'd do if searching for new mask.

[David1447]

Real quick before I head off to work - are you aware that CPAP.com has 30 day mask insurance on most masks? You can try new mask and return it if it doesn't work out. I'm not familiar with the details of this (is there a limit?, etc...), but this is what I'd do if searching for new mask.

As Pugsy guessed correctly in another thread, I'm not from the US so unfortunately that wouldn't apply to me. Maybe if I paid postage, but I don't know that it would be worth it as the round trip would probably cost as much as the mask. Thank you for the suggestion though.

[Pugsy]

As Pugsy guessed correctly in another thread, I'm not from the US so unfortunately that wouldn't apply to me. Maybe if I paid postage, but I don't know that it would be worth it as the round trip would probably cost as much as the mask. Thank you for the suggestion though.

Postage is part of it but the main monkey in the wrench is customs in both countries. The time involved to make it in and out of customs both ways will seriously eat into the 30 day window of the return policy.
The time STARTS when the mask leaves the cpap.com shipping warehouse and it MUST be back in that warehouse before the 30 days is up to qualify for the refund.

Items can be over nighted to speed through customs but the cost is prohibitive. Overnighting just a replacement P10 nasal pillow from the US to Jamaica ...$70. OUCH but I did it for someone who gladly paid the cost when she went on vacation and forgot the pillow mark of her mask and couldn't find one locally and no one else could ship her one at any cost. Cpap.com can't ship outside the US...they will overnight stuff and probably for less that what I had to pay but ResMed won't let them ship ResMed products outside the US under any circumstance.
We did make it though...at my post office went out at 1 PM...FedEx overnight is what my post office does for international overnight stuff...and she had it delivered to her hotel by 8 PM the next day. Surprised both of us.

[David1447]

As Pugsy guessed correctly in another thread, I'm not from the US so unfortunately that wouldn't apply to me. Maybe if I paid postage, but I don't know that it would be worth it as the round trip would probably cost as much as the mask. Thank you for the suggestion though.

Postage is part of it but the main monkey in the wrench is customs in both countries. The time involved to make it in and out of customs both ways will seriously eat into the 30 day window of the return policy.
The time STARTS when the mask leaves the cpap.com shipping warehouse and it MUST be back in that warehouse before the 30 days is up to qualify for the refund.

Items can be over nighted to speed through customs but the cost is prohibitive. Overnighting just a replacement P10 nasal pillow from the US to Jamaica ...$70. OUCH but I did it for someone who gladly paid the cost when she went on vacation and forgot the pillow mark of her mask and couldn't find one locally and no one else could ship her one at any cost. Cpap.com can't ship outside the US...they will overnight stuff and probably for less that what I had to pay but ResMed won't let them ship ResMed products outside the US under any circumstance.
We did make it though...at my post office went out at 1 PM...FedEx overnight is what my post office does for international overnight stuff...and she had it delivered to her hotel by 8 PM the next day. Surprised both of us.

That's such a cool story, she must've been waiting by the door. I can just imagine Harlen Coben (that his name?) typing away furiously somewhere. A Race Against Apnea is my suggested title, if he asks.

As to my conundrum with the leaks, I'm the proud owner of a new Weinmann FFM, something with Joyce, the name slipped my mind. It's pretty damn comfortable compared to my iVolve, which, well it's Chinese goods I guess. Maybe I won't buy any more masks on Aliexpress, lol.

Anyway, the mask is tight. As in cool, but also tight on my face, and I don't feel any leaks. It feels firm, and there's extra silicone around the nose ridge which my Jewish heritage is thankful for.

I'm optimistic for tonight. I hope not too much.....

[chartle]

I make my liners from paint rags sold at Home Depot or Lowes which are usually scraps from T shirt manufacturing. But when I first got my mask I too had worn a sore on the bridge of my nose. To combat it I used a square of toilet paper folded into a square to cover the area. After a few days my nose healed and sort toughened up the area.

I have also used knit polo type shirts that I found on clearance at Walmart. I think I bought a XXXL since it was the most material for the buck.

[David1447]

I make my liners from paint rags sold at Home Depot or Lowes which are usually scraps from T shirt manufacturing. But when I first got my mask I too had worn a sore on the bridge of my nose. To combat it I used a square of toilet paper folded into a square to cover the area. After a few days my nose healed and sort toughened up the area.

I have also used knit polo type shirts that I found on clearance at Walmart. I think I bought a XXXL since it was the most material for the buck.

Lol, efficiency loves a high bmi it seems.

Update in regards to mask. Seems it's quite a few levels above my older one. Works well, but only slept 3.5-4 hours last night due to unrelated circumstances.

Awoke very well considering and not considering the circumstances. I really think nasal masks are a no go for me after my brief experience with ffms.

We'll see how tonight goes. Changed settings to 10-17.5, which is basically the same as before with a higher max. A tip I picked up from djams incredibly useful therapy thread (Palerider's credit, I think) .

Graph will be posted later tonight or tomorrow if anybody's following.... Good night.

[David1447]

Here's tonight's graph. So at first, it took a while, but I finally fell asleep for a little bit at the beginning of the night. I woke up, I remember drooling, but I slept so lightly I thought nothing of it. In the graph, there's a RERA right before the wake.

Second part of the night isn't really sleep I think. After the second break, we arrive the chunk of time I actually slept it. You can see there were a few pressure increases to around 13.5, with the 95% # being 12.5. Since I saw a lot of RERAs in the second part of the night, and remember waking up around that time of night (although, as previously mentioned, other circumstances made this sleep particularly light), I've decided to make a bit of an abrupt change, which I hope you won't judge me too harshly for. I've upped the min pressure to 12. It's now 12-20 APAP mode. I've decided to make this rash, almost non-data-driven decision based on just a single night's data in hopes of getting a general direction of where I should go. If the night goes a little better, I'm on track. If not, well, back to the drawing board. I'm not planning on making any more abrupt increases, but if the night does go badly I will drop the min to 11. The more calculated, data-driven, medium to long-term decisions will come soon, mostly, after I'm settled on an okay-ish at least form of therapy. Right now, I'm freestyling, and to be honest, the results aren't terrible so far.

And as to leaks, if I knew how to make a party emoji, I would. Really low, like below 5L low, it seems. Hopefully this continues. I'm trending toward being very happy with my new mask, but let's give it some more time.

Thanks for tuning in! This is David's (ripoff from djams) therapy thread, good night.

[Sleepygal1]

I'm not sure how you tape your mouth or how large your face is, but I use this 2" wide micropore paper tape:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00KHVY0HG

and I basically curl my lips in towards my closed teeth and then apply the tape. The tape is not really on my lips but the skin above and below my lips this way. Then i relax my lips and they are pulled very tightly sealed almost still curling in towards my teeth a bit still. I leave about 1/2" on the left and right side of my mouth in length of tape.

I could not breathe or open my mouth if I wanted to. It's super tight. Also get free micro-dermabrasion every morning when I try to remove it