Climate Line Air with Airsense 10

[maiki]

I recently got a new Airsense 10 APAP. My old CPAP machine was at least 15 years old, and I didn't know about the newest inventions.

I was happy to see that it came with a heated hose (climate line air), to stop condensation, rainout. Something new.

However, that does not seem to work. Yes, when I plug it into the machine, I see the notice on the machine's screen, "Climate Line Air Connected". But even though I have it set to the highest temperature (86 degrees), it does not stop rain-out at all. I have had a lot of rain out when I set the moisture higher (which I like to do due to nasal rhinitis), and have to dial back the moisture level to reduce rainout. I don't think the heated tube does anything. Also, one would think one would feel some warmth on the outside of a tube set to 86 degrees, at least after running for a while. But I never feel any warmth at all on touching the tubing.

I called my DME, Apria, and told them that tubing was defective. They sent me another one. No better.

Might something be wrong with my Airsense 10, that it is not heating the tube like it should?

Does that ClimateLine Air work for others?

thanks for your input.

[Pugsy]

Where is the rain out accumulating...hose or mask?
Which mask do you use?
What is the household temperature in your bedroom?
86 degrees is actually cooler than the human body...it won't feel particular warm because compared to us it isn't.
What did you do to control rain out on your old machine?

[mets123]

Make sure your machine sits lower than where your head is. You can even put it in a drawer or even on the floor. If it’s at the level of your head or higher you will get rainout even with the heated hose. You can also try putting the temperature to auto.

[Pugsy]

Having the machine lower doesn't prevent condensation from happening.
All it does is maybe let gravity help out a little with the water draining back towards the humidifier.
Been there and done that with machine nearly on the floor and it was no help. It all depends on the mask, pooling of water in the mask, hose routing, etc if gravity is enough help or not. It wasn't for me even when I woke up with lots of water and held the hose totally vertical. The water just wouldn't drain off the insides of the hose well enough to stop the racket.

[Weagle]

I have the RedMed AirCurve 10 ASV and the ClimateLine heated tubing. I keep my house at 65 at night and yes, I do notice that the hose is warmer than the rest of the room. I also tried pushing more humidity (7-8) with the temp maxed out at 86 but still had the rainout occur. I went back to the auto settings and found it much more reliable and no rainout. I use a DreamWear Full Face mask with the hose connector at the top of my head. The hose then immediately drops off to the side of my bed before heading back to the machine on my headboard which is slightly lower than my mattress. I do see a little water accumulation in the mask in the morning, but nothing major.

[Okie bipap]

I've used the climate line hose since I started treatment. I have only had rain out one time, and that was shortly after I started treatment. We were in a cool hotel room and the machine was sitting on the nightstand next to my bed. The hose had quite a dip in it and that is where the moisture accumalated. I now use a hose cover and make sure there are no dips in my hose. At home, I route the hose up over the head board of the bed, and when I travel, I use a hose boss to keep the hose elevated. You may need to lower the humidity level setting on your machine. I just set mine to auto and let the machine determine how much moisture to add to the air. My wife keeps her humidity set high since she requires more moisture in the air she breathes than I do.

[maiki]

Yes, I know I can control rainout by setting the humidity setting lower. Same as with my old machine. But then, what is the purpose of the ClimateLine Air? I thought with that heated tubing I could set the humidity as desired, and the heated tube would prevent rainout. But I do not think it helps rainout at all. And as said, it does not feel at all warm. (86 degrees is considerably warmer than most room temperature, so yes, one would think that one could feel the warmth in touching that tube, especially after running for a while. Not on mine.

Still wondering if there might be something wrong with my Airsense 10, that although it detects the ClimateLine Air is connected, it doesn't really heat it?

[palerider]

And as said, it does not feel at all warm. (86 degrees is considerably warmer than most room temperature, so yes, one would think that one could feel the warmth in touching that tube,

Things cooler than your body temp feel cool, things warmer than your body temp feel warm.

Unless you're a lizard, 86f will feel cool to you.

[maiki]

And as said, it does not feel at all warm. (86 degrees is considerably warmer than most room temperature, so yes, one would think that one could feel the warmth in touching that tube,

Things cooler than your body temp feel cool, things warmer than your body temp feel warm.

Unless you're a lizard, 86f will feel cool to you.

Yes, average human body temperature is 98.6 degrees.

However, if your theory is correct---

If the thermometer in your house says that the indoor temperature is 86 degrees, that will feel cool to you? Does a room temperature of 86 degrees feel cool to you? I think most people will perceive an 86 degree room temperature as pretty hot!

So no, perception of warmth is not only for temperatures higher than your body temperature. Not true.

[maiki]

I am still wondering whether there is something wrong with my Airsense, not sending the heat to the ClimateLine Air (although it does perceive it as connected)? I ca?nnot set the humidity higher than 5 on the Airsense, without getting massive rainout. And this is in a heated bedroom, in a humidified home. I have bad rhinitis and dry mouth, so would prefer to set the humidity higher, but cannot. I really don't see how the ClimateLine really improves the rainout situation at all compared to my old machine, which did not have a heated tube? Do others here who use that machine and tube really notice a difference in how high you can set humidity without rainout, in comparison to not using a heated tube? (Wondering if something in my system is bad, or whether none really work as advertised?)

[Pugsy]

Do others here who use that machine and tube really notice a difference in how high you can set humidity without rainout, in comparison to not using a heated tube?

Definitely.
I use the setting of 6 right now for my humidity...heated hose at 83 degrees right now...house bedroom temp is probably 65 degrees.
When it gets colder outside the bedroom will get colder as it is poor insulated and has some north facing windows. I have seen 55 degrees showing on my little thermometer in the bedroom....it gets cold in there.
I had to up the heated hose temp to 83 about 2 weeks ago because of condensation in mask and hose....it was around 76 degrees before I changed it.
When it gets really cold and the bedroom temp drops to 60 or below...I will have to use the full 86 degrees to prevent condensation and even then I might have to add a short hose cozy and a barrel cozy too.

It's been years and years since I have used a non heated hose. No way would I have been able to use any sort of high humidity setting like I do now without a heated hose. A setting of 3 without heated hose would have caused so much water in the hose that it would wake the dead with the noise and be highly annoying with the cold showers out the vent holes.

Turn your machine on....let it run long enough to warm things up 15 minutes or so....stick a thermometer in the end of the hose with the supposedly warm air blowing out and see what it says. There are digital thermometers that will record fast enough.
You will need to turn SmartStart off to do this test otherwise the machine will recognize you aren't attached and turn itself off.

It wouldn't be impossible for your heated hose to be faulty despite the machine recognizing it.

[Weagle]

From my experience with my AirCurve 10 ASV and ClimateLine setup. When I first fill my humidifier with room temp water (about 68 degrees) and have my machine set to Auto for humidity/temperature. The tube always feels warm within a minute or two after starting the machine.

Remember the machine is trying to get the humidity and temp to 81 degrees before it reaches your mask. In order to do that it need to heat the tube up much warmer than 81 degrees to make the air/humidity to 81 degrees in that short 6 feet of tubing. For my setup, the ClimateLine is definitely warm to the touch within a minute or two, later as the night goes on and the heated humidifier gets the reservoir up to temp then the tube doesn't have to heat as much and the ClimateLine feels more like room temperature.

Not trying to start an argument, just expressing what I've experienced and why I believe it's doing what it's doing.

I have also considered wrapping my ClimateLine to prevent the loss of heat even further, but haven't gotten around to that point yet.

[palerider]

And as said, it does not feel at all warm. (86 degrees is considerably warmer than most room temperature, so yes, one would think that one could feel the warmth in touching that tube,

Things cooler than your body temp feel cool, things warmer than your body temp feel warm.

Unless you're a lizard, 86f will feel cool to you.

Yes, average human body temperature is 98.6 degrees.

However, if your theory is correct---

If the thermometer in your house says that the indoor temperature is 86 degrees, that will feel cool to you? Does a room temperature of 86 degrees feel cool to you? I think most people will perceive an 86 degree room temperature as pretty hot!

So no, perception of warmth is not only for temperatures higher than your body temperature. Not true.

My "theory" is fact. don't confuse how you feel inside the insulating blanket of still air vs the direct thermal conductivity of something you're touching. A much more apt comparison is how it feels when you stick your hand in water.

But, feel free to believe what you want.

[chartle]

I have the same setup and due to a cold I just got over I maxed out the humidity and now keep it there. First night I did this I had horrible condensation in my mask which turned it into a noise maker. I then maxed out the tube temp and it got rid of it.

When I first go to bed and turn on the machine I do feel the hose get warm. Definitely warmer than everything else in the room which is at around 66 degrees.

[maiki]

Do others here who use that machine and tube really notice a difference in how high you can set humidity without rainout, in comparison to not using a heated tube?

Definitely.
I use the setting of 6 right now for my humidity...heated hose at 83 degrees right now...house bedroom temp is probably 65 degrees.
When it gets colder outside the bedroom will get colder as it is poor insulated and has some north facing windows. I have seen 55 degrees showing on my little thermometer in the bedroom....it gets cold in there.
I had to up the heated hose temp to 83 about 2 weeks ago because of condensation in mask and hose....it was around 76 degrees before I changed it.
When it gets really cold and the bedroom temp drops to 60 or below...I will have to use the full 86 degrees to prevent condensation and even then I might have to add a short hose cozy and a barrel cozy too.

It's been years and years since I have used a non heated hose. No way would I have been able to use any sort of high humidity setting like I do now without a heated hose. A setting of 3 without heated hose would have caused so much water in the hose that it would wake the dead with the noise and be highly annoying with the cold showers out the vent holes.

Turn your machine on....let it run long enough to warm things up 15 minutes or so....stick a thermometer in the end of the hose with the supposedly warm air blowing out and see what it says. There are digital thermometers that will record fast enough.
You will need to turn SmartStart off to do this test otherwise the machine will recognize you aren't attached and turn itself off.

It wouldn't be impossible for your heated hose to be faulty despite the machine recognizing it.

Thanks Pugsy. Do you mean an oral thermometer, that one uses to tell if one has a fever? Could that tell room temperature? I have a room thermometer, but it is way too big to stick in the hose, perhaps I could find a smaller one.

I already had called Apria and told them the hose was defective, so they sent another one, and it is the same. So unless I had very bad luck and had two bad hoses, I am thinking it could be the Airsense 10 itself. It detects the ClimateLine Air is connected, and says so, but i don't know if it really sends any heat to the hose? Before calling and saying the whole machine is defective, I would like to make sure of that. (And now Apria CS seems to be in the Phillipines, with people whose English is not very good.)