I'm back!

michael_schaap · Post by **michael_schaap** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 4:33 pm

Back home now. Trying to absorb the information from the DME. There was no choices. She just brought it out. I decided to rent it so I can see how it is and the input I get from folks. Aparently you rent it for 10 months and its yours.

Ok.... It is a ResMed S8 Compact. I actually go tthe perscription and sleep study. The reviews look good on it, but it is VERY OVERCHARAGED. They charged 1500 for the S8 and 370 for the Humidifier.

All questions about features were answered that this is what your doctor ordered. When you look at the perscription it is very vague. There does not appear to be an specific order.

Slinky · Post by **Slinky** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 4:48 pm

#1. You have a copy of the script and KNOW that that particular machine is NOT what the doctor ordered but rather a "generic" description for "any machine will do as long as it provides X (whatever you need) amount of pressure.

Make it clear to your DME that you HAVE A COPY OF THE SCRIPT so you KNOW that what you've been given could easily be achieved w/several other PAP machines as well.

The same goes for every other thing the DME says is just what the doctor ordered.

#2. What the DME bills your insurance company and what your insurance company actually pays are two entirely different things. The DME gets paid the same amount by your insurance company for a low end model as they do for a higher end model.

#3. Resmed makes good machines. Some of the best. BUT their new selling policy "sucks" to put it mildly. It gives the DMEs incentive to promote and provide their equipment over other equipment manufacturers. I suspect it also provides incentive for sleep labs to promote the Resmed products as well.

#4. Refuse the equipment until you've had time to research the various makes and machines, decided upon a couple that interest you, made an appointment w/your sleep doctor to discuss the various machines so that the TWO of you, sleep doctor and you, agree on a specific machine and then have your sleep doctor write a new script for the specific machine (and heated humidifier) that you agree on.

#5. It might be worth your while to call your insurance company (or secondary insurance if Medicare is your primary) to see which DMEs in your area they are contracted with. If you have a choice you may find you like another DME better after talking w/their Respiratory Therapist about just what service they do provide, what their mask trial/exchange policy is, who does the downloads of the compliance and results data (the DME or your sleep lab), etc.

Slinky · Post by **Slinky** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 4:54 pm

By the way, my first script was "generic" as well, it was the company I wanted but not the machine I wanted. I took it back. They told me I couldn't return it w/o a script from my doctor to do so.

HA! They took it back w/o a script. That story is pure horsepuckies. You are the one paying for it, they can't make you buy/rent something you don't want and the doctor has no say in that.

I even switched DMEs. But then, my secondary insurance is contracted w/three different DMEs in our area so I had a choice. My sleep lab tried to tell me I couldn't switch DMEs. Tsk, tsk. What a bunch of horsepuckies these guys try to sell us.

Remember YOU are the one paying! You have the final say. They can lead a horse to water but they can't make it drink.

birdshell · Post by **birdshell** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 4:54 pm

Michael, that is the exact same machine I have. I had a similar experience with the DME provider, except they gave me a 30 day trial on the Swift.

It is a great machine if you do not want any of the other things. I carry it around quite a bit, and have had not one single problem with it. The humidifier is better designed than some, with a removable tank.

All the best with this machine. I know you will have a much better night's sleep tonight than you did last night.

GoofyUT · Post by **GoofyUT** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 4:55 pm

The ResMed S8 Compact is the cheapest, entry-level straight CPAP that ResMed makes. It is NOT data capable at all. It is one the one the brick and mortar DMEs most often try to push onto unknowing customers, since it maximizes their profit margin.

At the least, you ought to insist on a data-capable machine which will allow you track your own responses and progress in treatment. The ResMed S8 Elite is data capable, and in my opinion, is the very BEST straight CPAP made.

Cheers!

Chuck

Larry · Post by **Larry** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 5:50 pm

Just to clarify terminology for new users, "data capable" machines have on-board memory that stores pressures, leaks, apneas, etc. throughout the night for downloading into a computer (if you buy the software and cables for an additional price). Using PAP equipment without this capability would be like driving a car with no instrument panel.

GoofyUT · Post by **GoofyUT** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 5:56 pm

And, in the case of the ResMed Elite and AutoSet Vantage, data including Pressure, leak, AHI, AI and HI as well as usage is displayed RIGHT ON ITS LCD screen in nightly, weekly, monthly, six-monthly and yearly averages (user selectable) WITHOUT the need for a computer, download or ANYTHING else. Its all done with just the simple touch of a few keys.

michael_schaap · Post by **michael_schaap** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 8:13 pm

Been talking to the wife about this machine. One question she asked was why I would want to know these numbers? I dont know enough of this to explain. That is if I need them... One thing that the DME person said was that this machine tells HER how many hours I used it. I wanted to say... well... I'm sorry... exactly why would I give half of a rats A$$ that this tells YOU how many hours I've used it? Just how will that help ME?

She kept repeating the same things actually. One thing that she repeated was that this is a perscription and must be used every night. (picture this guy with Zombie eyes staring at you knodding.... uh huh.....).

DreamStalker · Post by **DreamStalker** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 8:25 pm

Yep ... very funny but unfortunately also a very sad picture.

You should respond to your DME that you must approach your OSA treatment as diabetics would approach their treatment. You must inform yourself of both your diagnosis as well as the treatment. You must monitor your treatment to make certain it is effective ... after all, it contributes to other illnesses including your heart problem.

Visit this forum and inform yourself about your treatment. Insist on a machine that allows you to view your daily AHI (apnea/hypopnea index), and AI (apnea index) numbers in order to monitor your treatment. Threaten your present DME that you will go to a different DME that will meet your demands … it is a lifelong treatment … just like diabetes.

Best of luck and not give up!

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 9:25 pm

Much as I hate to say anything in defense of your DME ..... she DOES need to know how many hours you've used it to determine your compliance w/CPAP therapy. If your compliance isn't satisfactory your insurance refuses to pay. They need to document your compliance. Insurances insist upon it.

Wulfman · Post by **Wulfman** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 11:16 pm

Michael,

Seems to me that with the heart conditions you mentioned in earlier threads, that they'd have put you on a Bi-PAP or something a little more sophisticated than just a straight CPAP that doesn't collect sleep data.

Did they mention what your pressure is supposed to be? You should have been given your prescription with the pressure indicated on it. If they didn't give it to you.....be sure to get it!

Best wishes,

Den

snoregirl · Post by **snoregirl** » Tue Nov 28, 2006 9:38 am

I am going to throw in a vote for marching back to that DME and walking out with a data capable machine. Especially if it isn't APAP the data is very very useful. How do you know if your apnea is being addressed the best it can.

I will second the statement that the DME makes the most profit on the cheapest machine. Take it back now.

I also don't go for some RT telling me like I am a baby that my machine HAS to be used nightly. I can't imagine not doing that but it is not their place to lecture you on what YOU have to do with YOUR body. A better approach would be to stress that the machine SHOULD be used every time you sleep and here is why........

I would seriously think about calling your insurance and finding another acceptable DME in the area.

I 1) lose trust when a RT tells someone that this was the machine prescribed when in fact the prescription didn't specify that machine. 2) Don't like the condesending attitute of the RT, and

You may have already paid for the humidifier as that is usually not a rental like the machine, so check the paperwork if you decide to return the machine. If it is a purchase, keep that and the mask, it is yours.

I don't remember if you posted your insurance info in a previous thread, but look carefully at that copay for the 10 month rental. You may well meet your annual deductable each year due to your other medical issues, but check that too to make sure you are not paying this DME more out of your own pocket than you would be buying cash online.

michael_schaap · Post by **michael_schaap** » Tue Nov 28, 2006 6:52 pm

Well let me start in saying that I think this forum is causing a lot of people a lot of grief. That we have come together and exchanged very important information about our condition and rights and all the available stuff out there is just uncomprehensable to many.

Ok.... so I called the tech at the sleep lab to just tell them that it's only one night but I certainly feel different this morning. We talked that I was not particularly happy with that the machine does not record helpful information. Well the first question was.... "What information?" So my answer was, "Well how many times I have stoped breathing might be one... I'm sure there are several others as well, but I'm pretty new to all this and am learning."... I wanted to say if you have to ask then perhaps I need to talk to someone else... but kept it on the civil side. I mean they do appear to want to help. So after he figured that I vaguely and I mean vaguely know a little bit he went on to other things. "Well you can get certain software that will tell you different things, but this only works for very select machines and patents generally are not permitted to use it."..... oh well...... round two..... "Might this be the software and readers that I can get online at CPAP.com. Correct me if I'm wrong, but several machines including the one just above the minimal machine I have displays this information right on the display screen.".... long wait.... "Oh and just one more concern I have.... if all this machine tells me is how many hours I have used it... lets say for argument that I should not see this information. How is the doctor going to know if my therapy is going well or not? I hope you not going to say that he is going to ask me if I'm feeling good..."

The conversation went along these lines for a bit actually. In the end he is aware that my defib unit went off last week and the cardiologist told me that this is one reason it went off. He is aware that I want to help in my own therapy as much as I can.... that I want to be pro-active. He is leaving a note with the doc for him to see tomorrow. Personally I am guessing that he is not even aware the I had the problem with the defib unit last week.

Ok.... anyone has any guess as to why in the world professionals have this attitude towards us? This whole thing just reaks of the 'members only' attitude. That we are just these stupid pateients.

DreamStalker · Post by **DreamStalker** » Tue Nov 28, 2006 7:06 pm

You are getting there Michael. You have to make them understand that you intend to be an active participant in your treatment and if they don't want to participate you will find another DME that will.

Unfortunately, most OSA victims are ignorant of their predicament and the so called health professionals are to busy raking in the cash to really to educate them.

Hang in there and not give up your health to their profit margin.

Best wishes,

- roberto

Kapow4000 · Post by **Kapow4000** » Tue Nov 28, 2006 7:10 pm

My machine did not come with software. Do you specifically have to ask for it? i would like to know my stats also.

I'm back!

I'm back!

S8 Compact

Data

Been talking to wife

Well....