new use for swift hose post surgery - unbelievable but true

woozle · Post by **woozle** » Fri Nov 17, 2006 3:25 am

Ok, brief history to get to tonight to explain the use of swift – so started cpap in april ’06, having problems from day one, but compliant, with regards to severe, painful swelling of sinuses using the swift – which I dearly love, and alternating with the UMFF – which I found to FINALLY work after all this time using the scuba glue – yippeeeeee – anyway, but sleep is still very fragmented and using drixoral and flonase daily as even the non direct pressured air in a nasal or full face mask is an irritant – and fyi, have tried the aveo tsd (tongue stabilizing device), which in principle is so cool, but is somewhat painful to the bottom of the tongue and didn’t really work with my severe apnea, it might for mild or moderate apnea? Who knows, that was an ordeal to even get the dumb thing.
Also tried the oracle which worked so well, EXCEPT for the natural tendency to always breathe thru the nose, that too was a frustrating, and somewhat painful
Went to dental doc but severe apnea prevents this from working right now and dental pain I can do without
And of course, the mouth breathing with tape and then the denture strips -
Anyway, and also have the f & P 407 nasal and F & P 43one which I really liked but all of these gave me a bone bruise on the bridge of my nose – so again painful –
But the reason for compliance is many, mainly the info and support from this site, and I’m not kidding, as well as being only 36, not overweight but have lost 20 pounds to see if could/would help whatsoever – and didn’t want to die or have a stroke anytime soon, or ever
So have also ruled out any thyroid issues, hormone issues, etc, all at my insistence, all with dr’s thinking I’m nuts I am sure – but am very blessed to have come across a GREAT DME and a GREAT ENT – my DME gave me a 2nd humidifier to use, as was thought addtl humidification might help with the sinus prob – it does but ONLY with the heated hose, which I love – but still painful – just not as much so – and he is going to loan me an oximeter free of charge, is doing all sorts of stuff to help me figure out how bad apneas are AFTER losing the weight and AFTER the results of the surgery are known - Also, I just got the comfortlite II and I love that thing too, I can stomach sleep on it but haven’t worked out any kinks yet – so I have an arsenal of masks out of pocket but worth it I think to achieve at some point some really good darn sleep

Which brings me to my turbinate reduction surgery, somnoplasty, etc. that happened yesterday, and my beloved swift and how it has saved me once again in an unusual way

So with having the surgery, my ent has been great, but no one seems to understand my great concern about not being able to use the cpap for 4-7 days after surgery and not being able to sleep/recover as well – but I knew I had to have surgery to keep using the cpap permanently
My apneas are so severe that if I fall asleep, within 5 minutes I have such severe apneas that they start immediately – I can feel the back of my throat closing and I start an awful cycle of gasping for air, choking, etc and I have only really slept once w/ out the cpap since getting it due to this – my ahi at sleep study was 76 and stopped breathing for up to 70 seconds – guess scared the polysomnographers
Anyway, so had the surgery yesterday (Thursday) and the anesthesiologists was like, uh, with being medicated after surgery, you need to try to use a full face mask so you don’t stop breathing, die etc, at home – and he was great as well as he allayed any and all concerns I had about the apnea and surgery, recovery etc.

So, first surgery ever in my life and I was so sick with throwing up blood and nauseous it was awful – but anyway, finally got home knowing that the next few days would be pretty horrific – so each time I take a pain med, which is really needed, can’t believe the pain, I would almost fall asleep, BUT the apnea would happen and back of my throat would close off and then first I would try to push air thru my blocked nose, which started bleeding, then would gasp for air – so this cycle went on and really a nightmare – but I know a lot of you understand this or can at least imagine it??
where my dr, as good a he is (the ent doc, not my sleep dr whom I despise and I never talked to about any of this – I will never see him again)

so I finally was so tired and in so much pain, I tried the umff but any pressure on the bridge of my nose halted any thoughts of sleep no matter what

So after fourteen hours after surgery, I am completely miserable and so tired and just really counting the seconds until my next pain pills, when I started looking around for something to keep my mouth open that wasn’t dangerous to see if it would help at all to sleep, first used my thumb but didn’t work and hurt with teeth pressing on it and waking up with severe apneas

THEN I tried, and don’t laugh, just putting the dang hose in my mouth with the cpap turned on to see if that would help a little but that was just weird, I was drooling with spit going everywhere and my mouth was dry, so that was pretty much ruled out after 2 minutes

Then miserable a few more hours, and I mean I had both my kids natural child birth and have a high tolerance for pain, but no sleep and pain meds that make you drowsy, but not being able to sleep – I was really at the end of my rope - until, I looked at my swift hose, my favorite among favorites and said to it, please, isn’t there any relief at all? And sure enough, my beloved swift said, well, you haven’t tried all your options yet – use your imagination (obviously on drugs at this point if my swift is talking to me )
Well, the little hose that connects to the nasal pillows shined brightly and actually twinkled in the light – and me being obviously very desperate – AND DON’T TRY THIS AT HOME, I AM NOT RECOMMENDING THIS –

I started thinking – or was delusional, take your pick, and thought, ok I have a really good gag reflex, they love me at the doctors when I get a throat culture as I don’t gag. So that little hose? I took it off and all by itself at the small end of the hose? Well I put that dang thing down my throat, and concentrated on not gagging, and it was put to the side of my mouth and when I breathed in, it was air from outside of the tube, and when I breathed out it seemed to go thru the tube and outside of it, and so no issues of rebreathing exhaled air

And I didn’t really think it would work as sounds pretty uncomfortable? But I tell you what, I went to sleep and when I woke up, my husband came in all smiles and said, wow honey, I can’t believe you slept but I kept checking on you and you were breathing great – I am thinking was asleep for 20 minutes and was so ecstatic, but it had been 2 HOURS – oh glory days I tell you – and I feel so much better, ie rested and pain lessened – I was getting desperate with no options in sight –
My throat is sore and I know that is a very temporary solution as I couldn’t do that all night or not even sure it will happen again today as I was exhausted - like painful, surgery sleep apnea exhausted – so may not ever work again
Sorry it’s so long but wanted to pass on this experience to everyone, especially new people to NOT GIVE UP 
Moral of this long story is
we will come up with anything if and when needed for survival –
AND – I swear, if this surgery doesn’t help with finally easing the discomfort of using the cpap, I am going to become a doctor – I mean hello – the residency would be a piece of cake for any of us with the no sleep you always hear about  and what we all can do on sleep deprivation, considered to be torture - untreated osa
And will figure out exactly why we get it, how to fix it permanently, etc.

Anyway, probably not but I have nothing good as an alternative  except for stopping cpap, which I just wont’ do – so I know that this surgery, in the long run, will be of great benefit but this is how I have gotten thru the first 20 or so hours – with some real sleep

I will keep ya updated on my great success story of no pain with cpap after all this recovery, and any other zany things I do


Sadie · Post by **Sadie** » Fri Nov 17, 2006 5:43 am

Woozie,

Thanks for your interesting post. You're right, we'll do 'whatever it takes'!

Although I take oxygen only at night, there have been times I've been soo exhausted during the day, that I've taken the hose an just put it in my mouth for a few minutes to get some relief (nose held closed)! Just trying to give my lungs a 'boost'.

Good for you, in figuring out what you needed, and a way to accomplish that end!
I'm sure that yours will be a success story.

bdp522 · Post by **bdp522** » Fri Nov 17, 2006 5:43 am

Isn't it amazing what we will do to survive?! I'm sorry you've been in so much pain. I do hope you will be feeling better soon. Keep us posted.

Brenda

Sleepless_in_LM · Post by **Sleepless_in_LM** » Fri Nov 17, 2006 8:37 am

Wow! I have similar surgery scheduled for early December. I am not sure if I should find your story inspirational or terrifying! I do hope I get good enough drugs that my swift starts talking to me... who better to tell me what I need to do to make it work right

Seriously, keep us updated on your progress. I would love to know what might be in store for me, how long recovery will take, and if you see any improvement in your OSA. I never planned on having the surgery, but just having some spinal fusion done, my insurance out of pocket was met and I needed to have my tonsils out anyway. So I figured I might as well go all the way.

rested gal · Post by **rested gal** » Fri Nov 17, 2006 10:26 am

woozle! I needed a chin strap AND tape to keep my jaw from dropping as I read your story! You took lab-ratting to an astounding new level. As Brenda said, "Isn't it amazing what we will do to survive?!"

Got one question (well, two...)...

I assumed you had your cpap hooked up and going, but upon re-reading your post, I'm not absolutely sure. Were you using the tube in your throat with cpap, or using just the tube without cpap hooked to it at all?

How far down your throat (from the entrance to the back of your throat...not from the front of your mouth) would you estimate you put the hose?

Hope you heal very, VERY soon so that you don't have to take such drastic measures again. We do what we gotta do, though! Sorry you've had such pain.

ZPAP · Post by **ZPAP** » Fri Nov 17, 2006 10:45 am

Great story, woozle! Hope you feel better real soon.

Michael

yardbird · Post by **yardbird** » Fri Nov 17, 2006 10:55 am

all I can say is.... "WOW!" ... hehehhe

woozle · Post by **woozle** » Fri Nov 17, 2006 11:27 am

thanks for all the encouragement - and I didn't mean to scare anyone off from surgery, apparently I am a 'rare' case with the nausea and pain - I guess the throwing up (sorry to the squeamish) right after the surgery was so intense and hard that it put so much pressure in the nose from surgery worsen - so my pain was atypical - so if you are contemplating surgery, please don't be scared from my account - I should have waited to tell the story when I had more marbles

Rested Gal
the small tube from the swift was used by itself, no cpap at all - I put it down in my throat just enough so that when I tried to close it off - so weird how I can do that knowing the feelilng of it closing off - and then I stopped it there and tried real hard not to swallow so I wouldn't gag- so I would say it was just past the downturn from the back of the tongue - it actually worked for 3 more hours so life is good - and my husband said I had no apneas, and I can't see how I really could have with no way for it to close - I guess it was somewhat similar to what they used for surgery with a tube going down, but I used it mainly for just keeping that one part open - there was air or openings in my throat around the tube as well
makes me think of my first thought when I first learned I had osa - to get like a retainer that has a metal band in the back that presses on the back of the tongue to keep it pushed back from the throat - who knows -but thank you all so much - I definitely will keep you all updated - and am feeling really good after 24 hours only - take care all

Julie · Post by **Julie** » Fri Nov 17, 2006 12:15 pm

Can I make a suggestion - if not for you then for anyone else possibly contemplating the same thing? To make a pinhole in the tube, string something (thread, etc.) through it and bring it out with a ... button or something on the end to pull on if for any reason at all you (or someone nearby) want to get the tube out and have trouble? It could be very dangerous otherwise if it slips in too far (not everyone has the same anatomy or gag reflexes, etc.).

Sadie · Post by **Sadie** » Fri Nov 17, 2006 12:52 pm

Another suggestion:

I can imagine that the plastic hose would be sharp where it's cut, but if you melted it ever so slightly, it would 'round out' some.

Born Tired · Post by **Born Tired** » Fri Nov 17, 2006 1:38 pm

woozle,
What a story! I sometimes gag trying to take a vitamin. Glad it worked for you.
Hope you heal quickly and can rest well soon.
Esther
--

dllfo · Post by **dllfo** » Fri Nov 17, 2006 1:45 pm

Woozle, sorry to hear about your problems. But I admire your tenacity with finding a solution.

Our 28 year old daughter had sinus surgery recently. It is a miserable time. I sure wish you God Speed in your recovery.

I used a 400 grit sandpaper (wet/dry sandpaper) to take the edge off my Breeze mask. It had a sharp "edge" that irritated my face, so I took it off.
It took a little longer with that type of sandpaper, but it worked fine.

ozij · Post by **ozij** » Fri Nov 17, 2006 2:02 pm

woozle wrote: the small tube from the swift was used by itself, no cpap at all - I put it down in my throat just enough so that when I tried to close it off - so weird how I can do that knowing the feelilng of it closing off -

Phew! Instant homemade intubation with a Swift tube...

Julie wrote:Can I make a suggestion - if not for you then for anyone else possibly contemplating the same thing? To make a pinhole in the tube, string something (thread, etc.) through it and bring it out with a ... button or something on the end to pull on if for any reason at all you (or someone nearby) want to get the tube out and have trouble

Julie's suggestion makes a lot of sense idea, for those brave or desparate enough to try. And woozle had her husband to check in on her.

Rested Gal wrote: woozle! I needed a chin strap AND tape to keep my jaw from dropping as I read your story!

I hope you feel much better, very soon, woozle.

O.

Nasty · Post by **Nasty** » Sun Nov 19, 2006 10:26 pm

A thought for Woozle and my fellow CPAPERS:

1. Would a TEMPORARY TRACHEOSTOMY be an option in conjunction with ANY surgery on a person with OSA.

2. Decisions to be made on a case by case basis.

3. The risk of permanent loss of one’s voice must be considered in addition to
other risks.

a. What are the chances of loss of voice [or anything else] occurring?

b. Are the chances less than being struck by lightning? I do not know.

4. This is so simple it might have gone beneath the feet of most Sleep Disorders
Specialists, rather than over their heads.

5. Remember, most areas of medical science have a 4,000 year head star on the
science of sleep disorders.

6. The risk of one’s actions must be weighed against the risk of one’s inaction.

Not medical advice; just a question:

Greetings from the Nasty Grumpy Old Foghead Hosehead.