New Mask - F&P 432

MD727 · Post by **MD727** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 7:18 am

I was notified via email that my new F&P 432 will be delivered this afternoon. I hope to post a positive review tomorrow.

Alisha · Post by **Alisha** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 2:52 pm

MD727, I don't see where we have received your review. There is a new thread on F&P432 shown below, and we would like to see your review included.

viewtopic/t14119/Flexfit-432-Full-Face-Mask.html

MD727 · Post by **MD727** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 3:27 pm

Just got it today - looks just like the old 431 except for the new grey cushion between the mask and the silicone seal. I quickly tried it on and my first thought was that this is a much more comfortable mask than the 431. That being said, F&P still kept the single forehead spike - I call it a spike because that what it feels like after a night of sleeping against it. I will wear it tonight and post my full review in the morning - I'm hoping the additional padding will not mark my face as deeply as the 431 did...we'll see....

Alisha · Post by **Alisha** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 4:53 pm

MD727 - I covered the headpiece with Dr. Shoal's Moleskin Plus (located in the footwear section of grocers and pharmacies). It padded the plastic headpiece enough to make it comfortable.

I also wrapped the Moleskin around the bottom straps, covering the headgear clip and part of the glider strap as well as as the strap itself and this keeps the clip and glider strap from gouging into the skin.

It would be helpful if manufacturers tested OSA products on a group of OSA patients for a couple of weeks before they put out the completed products.

MD727 · Post by **MD727** » Sat Oct 07, 2006 7:30 am

The Review:

I’ve just spent my first night with the new F&P 432. As promised, I will do my best to review this new and very comfortable mask. I’m sitting here with the both my old 431 and the new 432 so I’ll start with the aesthetics comparison of each.

The 432 has noticeably smaller footprint. There is no doubt that the upper portion of the mask (where the exhaust holes are) has been narrowed. This causes the exhaust holes to be narrower in pattern as well. The next obvious question is, does this equate to additional wind noise? In short, yes, but not much. While I did notice that the exhaust ports were slightly louder than the old 431 it was not enough to be annoying. I tend to have my air hose over my head board so that the exhaust ports blow directly on it – so, the hose was definitely in the path of the exhaust ports - and I although it was slightly louder, it was no where near as loud as the hybrid with the hose in the upward position.

The biggest difference between the two masks is the noticeable grey foam insert that some of the nasal F&P masks use – only bigger. This inserts into the 432 into some cleverly designed tracks which now reside inside the new mask. While the foam insert sits snugly inside these tracks, it not so tight that it is difficult to remove or set back in. I am concerned about its life span – it seems fairly fragile so I’ll remain a bit skeptical until proven otherwise. The silicone seal fits over the grey foam and is inside its own groove just like the 431. The silicone seal looks to be exactly the same as the 431 (I’m using the large size) – in terms of size, the grey foam addition and the noticeable narrower mask shape should make for some size fitting differences. When ordering you have to now choose between S, M, or L because they no longer include the different sizes with each mask – in my opinion, if you were using the large on the 431 – stick with it- as the actual space you face fits in is slightly smaller. I can’t speak for the other sizes, but I suspect the same would be true. As for the rest of the mask design it is more or less the same as the 431 – and unfortunately that also applies to the forehead mast. Hey, you guys over at F&P – redesign this – it is uncomfortable and at this point, is the only thing standing in your way of total market share for a full face mask. I’m no engineer, but I do know this – if you can spread the load over a wider area it will be better supported – and in this case, that means additional comfort. The forehead spike continues to stab me (and others) until you end up with a new dimple in your forehead. I have resorted to placing pad-a-cheeks over this area which does work, but adds to the difficulty in putting this mask on. In short F&P, your next ff mask, the 433, should be re-designed in this area.

Headgear. To be honest here I can’t really report on this one too much – as I didn’t use the headgear that came with it. I was too lazy to adjust all the straps. After I realized that the new headgear used the identical clip mechanism to the old 431 style, I used my old 431 headgear. However, it would appear that while the clip is the same, the weight of the new headgear material is different. The straps have been made wider and it appears the material is slightly thicker. This may add to more comfort, but until I go through adjusting it, I’d only be speculating.

Ok, now to where the rubber meets the road…comfort. Yes, this mask is more comfortable and seals much better than the 431. The grey foam insert certainly conforms to the face and results in a much better seal. I was able to lie on my back until I nearly fell asleep without any mask leaks whatsoever. At a pressure of 18 cm. many masks after about 10 minutes, start to develop slight leaks and have to be re-adjusted. Not this one – in fact, at one point I opened my mouth slightly in order to try and cause a leak, and still no leak appeared. It was only when I lowered my head toward my chest slightly, that I got a small leak under my chin. I rolled over on my side and quickly fell asleep for the rest of the night – only to wake up 8 hours later feeling good and rested. End result – this is a better mask than the 431 and in my opinion, the best ff face mask on the market. I’m not including the hybrid in that category – that mask (which I own) is in a class by itself.

In conclusion, if your looking for a full mask that seals well and it is comfortable (as comfortable as a ff mask can be) take a look at the new 432. While it is more expensive – nearly $200 – it would appear to fall in the category of “you get what you pay for” and in this case, that’s a good thing.

Feel free to ask me any questions that I may have overlooked here – I am by no means a professional reviewer – just trying to help my fellow cpap’ers find the next best thing to help us all sleep. Thanks.

_________________

CPAPopedia Keywords Contained In This Post (Click For Definition): hose, seal

Bones · Post by **Bones** » Sat Oct 07, 2006 7:51 am

Well I think that was an excellent review MD727. Thank you for taking the time.

Brian

cpapsellar · Post by **cpapsellar** » Sat Oct 07, 2006 8:11 am

Superb personal review! The cpap manufacturers visit this site often (they have told me as much and have the specifics to prove it) and no doubt F&P will be talking about this thread Monday morning. Posts like yours drive product improvements.

Could it be that the real customer, the cpap patient, is finally getting a voice?

OwlCreekObserver · Post by **OwlCreekObserver** » Sun Oct 08, 2006 3:46 pm

Excellent review, MD727!

Now I can't wait for my 432 to arrive.

OCO

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Mon Oct 09, 2006 8:07 am

I finally had luck with my 432, I found going to the large size was the answer, I think technically it is too big, but is more comfortable. If anyone is having abrasion problems on their nose, I tightened the straps on my mask, and it seems to have helped the problem. And also solves leak issues, which are minimal with this mask.
I find the tighter the mask, the less it moves around, which is what I think was causing the abrasion issue.
Because of the foam cushion under the silicone, you can get away with it a little tighter.
The silicone seal is thicker at the nose bridge area also, I think this helps the overall seal, and is more durable.

Brian Hinther · Post by **Brian Hinther** » Mon Oct 09, 2006 7:56 pm

While I certainly understand what you mean about F&P's "forehead spike," I hope they don't pattern any improvements after ResMed's "airplane wing" that sits atop the UMFF.

The ResMed design (Ready for landing, Major Tom) makes it too difficult for me to sleep on my side, which is something I need to do more of with an increasingly bad back. (I thought this the ideal spot to use one of those vomit emoticons that served so well in the mouth taping thread, but can't seem to find one.)

Anyway, thanks for the feedback on the 432. I'm trying to decide between it and the Hybrid.

Alisha · Post by **Alisha** » Mon Oct 09, 2006 9:44 pm

Brian, imho, I would never use the term "forehead spike" in a description of the 432. I find the forehead piece more comfortable than the wider forehead supports. I did fit a strip of Moleskin Plus (because of extremely sensivive skin) over this forehead support, and it is very comfortable and leaves no marks on my delicate skin (forehead).

This, imo, is the most leak-proof ff mask made yet (I've used 6 others) and is very comfortable. I slept 8 hours last night and awakened only once, stretched my legs out, and immediately fell asleep again. Then I awoke in the same position I had drifted off in 8 hours earlier. If you move your head during the night, this mask does not move because the extra foam cushion makes for such a good seal. With this good seal, I am not awakened with leaks. I cannot remember when I have ever slept all night and only woke up once.

I have not used the Hybrid and cannot compare the two, but thought you should know someone else's opinion of the 432 headpiece while you are making your decision.

Regards and I hope you find a mask which is best for you.

Alisha · Post by **Alisha** » Mon Oct 09, 2006 9:55 pm

Sorry, Brian, I forgot to add that I, also, sleep on my side, and the 432 stays in place and holds its seal.

Snoredog · Post by **Snoredog** » Mon Oct 09, 2006 11:33 pm

Good review, I've looked at the pictures on cpap.com:

https://www.cpap.com/productpage/FlexiF ... aykel.html

I'm finding this new 432 mask doesn't appear to have any forehead support (or as you call it a spike?)?

I've learned years ago without that pivot feature you have no way of adjusting the tilt of the mask fore and aft to eliminate leaks that may develop into the eyes. How do you compensate for that?

It looks like you could unhook the headgear without losing your strap tension settings and I could learn to live with that, but I'm hesitant on any mask without a forehead support or pivot especially when it is a full face mask (been down that road before).

The exhaust ports appear to be small square holes just like those found on the exhaust port on the Comfort2 Full Face which I find to be noisy. For me, the benchmark on a quiet mask is the UMFF.

If your pressure is at 18cm, then you are probably already used to cinching up the mask pretty tight to stop any leaks so having a pivot is probably a mute point. I can understand if your pressure is 18cm that your perceived noise level tolerance would differ and be much higher than mine at 10cm.

Big issue for me is exhaust noise, I cannot stand a noisy mask. That is why I've gone through and tossed nearly every pillow mask that I've tried in the drawer including the Hybrid of which I found to be noisy.

You don't mention any facial hair, so I'm assuming the above review was with a clean shaved face? (for leaks, comfort, noise etc.). Overall a good review.

It would be really great to find another good FF mask but with them at $200 a pop now, I'm trying to see the advantage this mask has over the UltraMirage Series2 other than it being cheaper.

But using the Comfort2 a few nights, I've learned the UMFF leaks like a sieve which can have a big impact on how you feel the next day.

MD727 · Post by **MD727** » Tue Oct 10, 2006 9:10 am

Thanks snoredog (great name) - as for the spike and the eye leaks - I have compensated for that by using moleskin on the mask across the top portion of it which has a narrowing effect - I've learned that the width of my nose bridge is rather narrow. I've had to do this modification on almost every mask I've owned/tried - so, can't say it's a problem related just to the 431/432. As for the spike - my mother was looking at it yesterday, and using some pad-a-cheeks and some velcro she sewed a "padded cover" which fits over the top of the spike eliminating any facial marking I was getting. As for facial hair, I am clean shaven and therefore can't comment on how facial hair would re-act to this mask - good luck. Hope you find a ff mask that works for you!

rested gal · Post by **rested gal** » Tue Oct 10, 2006 9:42 am

Excellent informative review, MD727. While I rarely have to use a FF mask, I do like to have a really good one stashed and ready. The 432 sounds like one worth trying.

Thanks for the well written description of how it works for you.