trying hard but confused

ltd123 · Post by **ltd123** » Mon Sep 04, 2006 6:11 pm

It has been 3 months since my sleep study where I was diagnosed as having mild sleep apnea (13 apneas per hour). I have a cousin who took home his new machine and mask and slept the whole night and hasn't had a complaint since. That has not been my experience!! I still can't get decent sleep. Luckily I found this forum and have gotten a lot of great help here. However, every time we solve one problem, my brain seems to think up another way to prevent me from sleeping.

At this point I am using a Respironics Bipap auto with Bi-Flex. I have the heated humidifier. The bipap solved a lot of problems. Getting them to reset the bipap helped solve even more problems. They convinced me to try one month of Ambien CR (continuous release) at the lowest dose (6.25 mg). I can actually tolerate that medicine and not feel drugged all the next day. I can't imagine using drugs to sleep the rest of my life but it sure is helping how. (once I slept 4 whole hours straight!! but usually I am sleeping a couple of hours at a time but the drugs seem to make me go back to sleep more often rather than being up for hours)

However much I search on this forum and try various options- I cannot solve my latest problem. I suddenly am swallowing air and it hurts and I awake after a couple of hours with this vague nasty hard feeling in my stomach. I made every chin strap... I made the mouth piece out of the boil-n-bite things.... I tape my mouth shut with a 6 by 2 piece of tape. Every idea helped at first but now I feel my cheeks puff up like a chipmunk and I assume that I am swallowing air when I am not awake to do the neat discharge-the-air thing described by someone. I am wrapped up like a ridiculous mummy and still not being successful.

My mask is a comfort classic by respironics and I also have a model with the semirigid cap over your head and the rigid hose coming down over your forehead. My question is..... If I get a full face mask (which I can tell by everyone's comments is not going to be likely to seem terrific at first .. if ever)... will the air swallowing stop or will I just be able to swallow air like with the other ideas I have tried?

I am female - age 60 - good health , sleep on my back with no other options, have an electronic bed that I can adjust all night with a remote control, great pillow.... I have never swallowed air in my sleep before now.. will a full face mask help?

any advice will be appreciated.
Laura

DreamStalker · Post by **DreamStalker** » Mon Sep 04, 2006 6:47 pm

I've heard tha it is possible to train yourself to use your tongue to seal off air flow into your mouth an prevent the "chipmunk" syndrome. If you learn to keep it up on the roof of your mouth ... like begining the sounding of the word "NO".

Unfortunately it may not solve the air in your stomach problem. Do you have acid-reflux (GERD) issues. The air in your stomach (known as aerophagia) may be due to a weak lower esophageal sphincter (LES). You should consult your primary care physician about it.

- roberto

ltd123 · Post by **ltd123** » Mon Sep 04, 2006 7:18 pm

Roberto - thanks for your answer. No - I have never had any GERD issues. I had heartburn once in my life for 5 minutes and had to ask what it was. I don't even burp. My stomach never bothers me in any way til now.
I have been working on that training my tongue idea but so far my tongue is very cooperative only as long as I am awake. My tongue gets very sneaky the second I fall asleep.
Laura

Goofproof · Post by **Goofproof** » Mon Sep 04, 2006 7:27 pm

You need to fill in your profile. What pressures are you at? A Ff Mask will make sure you are getting the correct treatment, but it won't stop swallowing air. Maybe raising the head of the bed will help, maybe they have your machine set up wrong. We need more facts. Jim

ltd123 · Post by **ltd123** » Mon Sep 04, 2006 7:39 pm

Jim, I just found the profile place and filled it in. I am now going to tackle the user manual and see if I can get some more data to show up on the bipap machine...
Laura

Goofproof · Post by **Goofproof** » Mon Sep 04, 2006 7:45 pm

Your Encore Pro should have every thing you need under full details. Your machine should be the best at helping you to not swallow air if it's set correctly. Jim

islander · Post by **islander** » Mon Sep 04, 2006 8:55 pm

I was having big problems with swallowing air the first several weeks of CPAP and someone on this board posted that you should try to keep your chin away from your chest as much as possible......like using no pillow if sleeping on your back. Well, between that implemented idea (very thin pillow) and starting to use an APAP I have not had any more problems with Aerophagia.
I do hope you get it sorted out soon as it is a miserable feeling...I tried about ten masks and had no relief with any of them until the APAP (with somewhat reduced pressure) and the "chin as far away from the chest as possible idea".

tooly125 · Post by **tooly125** » Mon Sep 04, 2006 9:04 pm

ltd123,

Everybody is different but If your only reason for getting a full face mask is to stop swallowing air I think you would be wasting your money.
You also can get the chipmunk cheeks with a full face mask although mine have seemed to go away on their own,either that or I have just gotten used to them.
I think for me sleeping position has the biggest effect on how much air I swallow I try to keep my chin away from my chest as much as I can.
Every morning I must Burp to let out all the air I swallowed during the night but I no longer get to the painful point. My body may have just gotten used to the air at night.
I have read others saying that a glass of medimusal before bed helped them but had no luck with it myself.

GoofyUT · Post by **GoofyUT** » Mon Sep 04, 2006 9:08 pm

I don't want to make anyone here feel bad, but I've been SO blessed! I use a Swift and get good treatment numbers, GREAT leak numbers, a WONDERFUL treatment response, NO aerophagia and I've NEVER used a chin strap, mouth taping, manty-hose or anything else. Just Steve's velcro-strip fix ont he back-straps.

I say this not to be boastful, but simply to say that YES, it IS possible to train yourself to park your tongue and have it seal airway. So, for those who are hopeful about getting relief and being able to avoid all the rigamarole, DON'T GIVE UP HOPE!!! It CAN work!

Hope this helps!

Chuck

ltd123 · Post by **ltd123** » Mon Sep 04, 2006 9:47 pm

I thought I had already posted this but maybe it got lost in cyberspace:

When I checked the data I could get from the bipap screens I found my software was version 5.4
the flex was set at 1
rise off
ramp starts at 4.0 (I thought that was too low and changed it to 7.5 a few min ago)
Is any of that info helpful?
JIm - how would I go about getting the "full details" you mentioned off the encore card?
Tnanks everyone for your input.... I feel hopeful about improving this situation .
Laura

Goofproof · Post by **Goofproof** » Mon Sep 04, 2006 9:54 pm

Your software you have marked is Encore Pro version???, do you have Encore Pro on your computer and the DT3500 card reader working. The software number you posted doesn't compute. You probably have to have Encore Pro version 1.6i, for the bi-pap auto. Jim

Goofproof · Post by **Goofproof** » Mon Sep 04, 2006 10:01 pm

BiPAP Auto, shouldn't need ramp at all, and 4 CM is usually too low for breathing, I don't use BiPAP, maybe some who does can help, Theres more settings on BiPAP to get messed up. You should have a separate intake pressure and a separate exhaust pressure. Jim

ltd123 · Post by **ltd123** » Tue Sep 05, 2006 7:23 am

I rechecked my info. I got the encore pro smart card info from the user manual list of parts to my bipap machine. I shouldn't have listed that under "software" on my profile I guess since I do not find any disc type product that would seem like software I could put into my own computer. The machine does have a square disc inserted into it. The dr office takes it out and gets some kind of reading from it.

The information I listed about having version 5.4 must just be nuts. I can't duplicate finding that number anywhere -

I had a weird result from changing my ramp from 4 to 7.5 last night. The machine seemed to revert to the problem it had where it wouldn't follow my breathing patterns comfortably. After about 30 min I put the ramp number back to 4 and the machine was fixed again. Maybe this was a coincidence (I suspect I am not doing my best reasoning during the night due to the nasty combination of being sleep deprived, hooked up to a machine, and under the influence of a sleeping pill!).

I do not have a DT3500 card reader . Is this something you buy separately? Would it work on my Mac computer?

Thanks for the feedback about even a full face mask allowing air swallowing. I tried the other advice lastnight about head position, etc.

Laura

Goofproof · Post by **Goofproof** » Tue Sep 05, 2006 9:59 am

The software and reader have to be purchased by themselves, they don't come with the unit, one determined person did get to run on a Mac, but we have enough trouble getting it to run under windows, so I wouldn't advice getting it for a MAC, unless you are a Mac Whiz.

I would get a Windows computer, if I had to, to use the software, but that's me, I think it's that important, most people probably wouldn't.

Just a reflection, not on you but in general, more and more people seem to be getting BiPAPs, for unknown reasons, that would be better suited to APAP. It looks to me, like they making treatment more complicated, for no good reason, and it isn't doing the patient any good. Just one more way, to make the patient non-compliant.

What was your pressure on CPAP? Jim

ltd123 · Post by **ltd123** » Tue Sep 05, 2006 10:15 am

Jim - thanks for sharing your knowledge! I have friends with windows/pcs so I guess I could go to their computer and get my info...

About the cpap pressure - seems like 12 is always the high end number for what they try. I think my cpap had a ramp setting of 6 and then went to 12 in the night. 6 got to be irritating so I increased that to 8 after a month. My problem with cpap was not being able to exhale "against the current" even after weeks of trying. I would sort of master the low starting pressure then be awakened every few minutes by the air flow itself.
They started a bipap machine about a month ago and that was an instant improvement for me. I could finally adjust easily to having a mask on my nose. The breathing part of the whole experience is now feeling natural and easy. Of course I have lots more problems to resolve but I don't think the cpap was ever going to work for me...
I don't know what APAP is.... I don't think that has been offered to me unless it is a cpap with an auto feature which I think mine had ( C-flex) but it is all a foggy memory now.

Laura

trying hard but confused

trying hard but confused

Sorry