What about setting up a mask or machine exchange?

[meister]

A number of you mentioned that you have 5 or 6 different masks or
3 or 4 different machines. Would it be possible to have an area set
up to help those of us who don't have opportunities (due to no nearby DME or lack of good insurance or lack of money, etc.) to borrow someone else's
mask or machine for a week to try it out. My understanding is that the
masks can be sterilized. I guess the problem is that there are too many
folks who would not return them, or cause some other problems.
But very few of us can afford $1000 per pop to try a couple of different
machines, yet there are posts on this board that state machine X didn't
work whereas machine Y was fabulous. Just a thought.

[Liam1965]

GREAT idea, but probably unworkable.

We're all over the country, and there aren't that many of us. So it's not like we can all plan on meeting down at the coffee shop, have a cup (decaf, of course, we're not MASOCHISTS), and swap equipment around.

I mean, yeah, shipping them around would be cheaper than buying a whole batch of machines, but I, for one, wouldn't feel particularly comfortable shipping my machine anywhere, and especially those of us who only have one are going to have a bit of an issue while waiting for it's return.

Liam. You might talk me into swapping partners, but never machines.

[johnnygoodman]

Howdy,

We've thought about this several times. Every year or so it comes up in conversation. However, no one around our camp fire can figure a way to make it work.

1. Do you really want to use someone elses mask, no matter how sterile.
2. Do you really want to trust that your stuff will be returned on goodwill alone?
3. How can a company provide this service and stay in business without charging marked-up prices?

Any suggestions, ideas, or comments are welcome.

Regards,
Johnny

[Guest]

What about trading instead of loaning. Mr. Goodman, as a business, you would have to take trade ins and be responciple for sterilizing and then resell cheap. I know you would have liabilities. Or you could have a bullitin board that people could post something they have to sell or trade and you could stay out of it if you wish. There are many that have a mask that "did not work" for them that some of us would like to try with reduced monetary expense. Same as a machine. How many straight cpaps are out there where they woould like to trade up to an auto or other but have this perfectly good machine that most likely is fairly new and we have to wait five years for DME can supply new one. I am in this boat. Man, if you would give me a decent credit on my Resmed 7 Lightweight towards a good slightly used auto, I would be very interested. Would love to hear from you on this.

[rock and roll]

Dang, forgot to sign in again. Twas me, Rock and Roll on the above post.

[gailzee]

Would you want to wear someone else's mask? I know I wouldn't.....how gross is that idea? UGH.........it's as bad as using someone else's toothbrush. YEEUUWW. IF someone has to buy a mask, and has a c/card, pay it off monthly budget wise, or see if ins. will cover it (not...). If a DME really really wants your business, and they are reputable they can work it out.
Airborne pathogens into masks of contagious people breathing into masks, I THINK NOT. I would never sell, trade, or loan my mask to anyone.
Liability is too too great.

A number of you mentioned that you have 5 or 6 different masks or
3 or 4 different machines. Would it be possible to have an area set
up to help those of us who don't have opportunities (due to no nearby DME or lack of good insurance or lack of money, etc.) to borrow someone else's
mask or machine for a week to try it out. My understanding is that the
masks can be sterilized. I guess the problem is that there are too many
folks who would not return them, or cause some other problems.
But very few of us can afford $1000 per pop to try a couple of different
machines, yet there are posts on this board that state machine X didn't
work whereas machine Y was fabulous. Just a thought.

[53now]

This is a pretty "sticky" subject. On 4-5 ocasions I have traded or purchased used masks from people I have met here at cpaptalk as well as TAS. IS this a good idea ??? Probably not, but Hey!!! we all sit on toilet seats that.................well, I won't go there (probably a bad comparison)

I bought a NasalAire2 from someone about a month ago. She said it was clean !! When I received it .....I soaked it in soapy water and white vinegar. Then cleaned it again with warm water and Ivory soap. Truthfully, it was probably cleaner than it was "straight from the box".

Final thought...........using a mask from a complete stranger ??? hummmmm I don't think so. I try to make some communication with the person first. Setting up a "business or network" of trading cpap equipment has "Liability" written all over it !!! HOWEVER>>>>>>> there is an organization that is in the business of giving away used Cpap equipment to those who can't afford it. "AWAKE IN AMERICA INC" So...it can be done

Rich

[wading thru the muck!]

I've been mulling this over for a few days since it was originally posted. I have a few ideas:

1. Regarding the machines, because of the reported varying success people have had with various auto machines it would be good to try before you buy. This in some cases has motivated people to go the traditional DME route instead of saving themselves and the healthcare system oodles of money by buying online. A solution would be to offer rentals. I would suggest a 2 week rental for approx $100 including domestic shipping both ways (UPS has an easy system for this). A deposit could be attached to a credit card to protect from loss. Each machine should have a fixed HEPA filter inlet and outlet to keep the machine "clean". After the two weeks the machine is placed in the original box and a pre printed shipping label is attached and UPS picks up the machine with just a phone call. As an added bonus the provider upon receipt of the retuned machine could download the data from the two week trial and e-mail the data charts to the renter.
2. Regarding masks, How about putting together a package of the popular masks to be rented as a package. You could have a package with each type mask (nasal/full face/pillow) or a package with all the nasal pillow/prong interfaces. Include in each, pillows/prongs/cushions of all sizes. All the parts could be machine sanitized when returned. I would think this too could be done for around the $100 (shipping included figuire) for a 3-4 mask package.

At these prices the program should more than support itself and also should generate subsequent new goods sales that may have otherwise gone to the local DME/Insurance racket.

You could calculate the number of rental cycles required to support the program and then donate the euipment after it reaches that point to the "awake in america" relief program.

This is definately an area that could alleviate some concerns that drive some people away for making an online purchase.

[meister]

If there is a will there is a way!! Masks can be totally sterilized and used
by other folks safely. Do you think when you go in for a sleep study that
they give you a brand new mask and then toss the $150 mask after you
leave? If you eat off of a plate or drink from a cup, is it always "your"
same one? So I think that companies can safely sterilize masks and
receivers would be smart to thoroughly wash it before and after use.

The above poster has put some solid thought into it. It appears that
the owner of this site is amenable, now we just work out the details.
If I need to sign a liability disclaimer, so be it. The last 3 surgeries I
had the Doctors had me sign multiple pieces of paper which basically
said no matter what happens, I can't hold them responsible. The rental
approach sounds just fine. If I want to buy a $45,000 car, I am sure
going to take it for a test drive first. I great idea is to rent one for a
week! So I am willing to pay to rent it and I am willing to be responsible
and supply my credit card for the full purchase price if I don't return it.
I am willing to sign liability disclaimer, as well. If a number of other
folks are, then we can move forward.

The other idea is just "an Exchange". I set one up for Penn State
football tickets. Folks who had tickets stated how to contact them
and what they had. Folks who were looking for tickets posted what
they were looking for. I just provided the web interface. No one
ever sued me if they didn't get their tickets. So lets have folks who
have a mask to "loan/rent" post what they have, and have others post
a description of what they want to try. Sounds like a lot of good marketing
data could be gleaned just by observing the trends.

Hopefully this thread will continue with more ideas until something
gets fleshed out. How do you think EBay came to be?

[gailzee]

Restaurants have supposedly better inspection re: sterilized /or sanitary dishes. Does anyone really think the someone like JCAHO comes out to a hospital and inspects every nook and cranny. Believe me, been there, seen this, they DO NOT. As for what hospitals do, almost everyone I've talked to came away with a headache, sinus problems et al from their sleep study. It's a generalized location, mass production, and about as good as a clinical revolving door can get.

If there is a will there is a way, to be sure. But DME's have to accept responsbility for at least trying on of masks. These companies who produce the ''real'' masks/pillows, could make a cheaper version for try on. Don't worry, price is already gouged so, doubtfull if they lose too much. Doctors tell you nothing, DME's run it with insurance and until that alliance is re-configured, we're stuck with supplies or masks, or whatevers........don't like, don't fit....etc.

Many ideas are altruistic and just, but practicality and liability in today's world begs caution at best.

If there is a will there is a way!! Masks can be totally sterilized and used
by other folks safely. Do you think when you go in for a sleep study that
they give you a brand new mask and then toss the $150 mask after you
leave? If you eat off of a plate or drink from a cup, is it always "your"
same one? So I think that companies can safely sterilize masks and
receivers would be smart to thoroughly wash it before and after use.

The above poster has put some solid thought into it. It appears that
the owner of this site is amenable, now we just work out the details.
If I need to sign a liability disclaimer, so be it. The last 3 surgeries I
had the Doctors had me sign multiple pieces of paper which basically
said no matter what happens, I can't hold them responsible. The rental
approach sounds just fine. If I want to buy a $45,000 car, I am sure
going to take it for a test drive first. I great idea is to rent one for a
week! So I am willing to pay to rent it and I am willing to be responsible
and supply my credit card for the full purchase price if I don't return it.
I am willing to sign liability disclaimer, as well. If a number of other
folks are, then we can move forward.

The other idea is just "an Exchange". I set one up for Penn State
football tickets. Folks who had tickets stated how to contact them
and what they had. Folks who were looking for tickets posted what
they were looking for. I just provided the web interface. No one
ever sued me if they didn't get their tickets. So lets have folks who
have a mask to "loan/rent" post what they have, and have others post
a description of what they want to try. Sounds like a lot of good marketing
data could be gleaned just by observing the trends.

Hopefully this thread will continue with more ideas until something
gets fleshed out. How do you think EBay came to be?

[SleepyTimeGal]

Perhaps some of you have not thought about the cost of doing a rental of masks. Example;

Profile Lite Gel mask with Headgear at cpap.com=$64.99
Comfort Classic mask with headgear at cpap.com=$49.99
Breeze pillow system complete with 1 pair pillows at cpap.com=$79.99

Masks =$194.97

UPS shipping one way 10.00, UPS shipping back 10.00

Cleaning=Someones time, cleaning solutions, etc.=20.00

Now you have a cost (and a pretty good cost) of 235.00, for this rental package.

What if a mask is sent out and returnd damaged? Replacement cost now.

So sending out a "mask sampler" on a rental basis as suggested for about $100.00 is a real loss of money to the supplier of this "mask sampler".

Plus the time involved in sizing masks, sorting, paperwork to get a rental sampler out and then back in, etc.

I really believe the cost of doing this would increase the sale price of the same masks, as now more time, personnel, handling, inventory, will change for this provider, just to provide a rental sampler.

To me this is not good business.

I would rather do the measuring that is suggested at cpap.com, have one of their cpap representatives suggest some appropriate sized masks, and take a chance, rather that go thru the "sampler" method. Besides, if I get a mask in the sampler, I would most likely want to buy a new one, and now I am out more money.

SleepyTimeGal

[wading thru the muck!]

SleepyTimeGal,

Sounds as though you think I am suggesting the samplers would be manditory. That not what is being discussed. This would be for people who would like to try additional masks and maybe find a new one that they like. Many people have found that by trial and error purchasing they end up with a drawer full of masks they don't use. This system would allow people to try a group of masks and then if they like one of them, purchase a new one. The particular masks you listed would not be ones I would suggest renting. They are cheapies (with the exeption of the Breeze) that I would suggest you would be better off buying. The ones I am talking about are the $100 -$150 masks. Without knowing the actual dealer cost of the masks I can't know if the $100 per rental number is workable. My educated guess is that it's close. The prime factor would be how many rental cycles the masks would tolerate. If you can get 10 rental cycles that's gross revenue of $1000 per sampler. If you can keep the cost to $500 to $600, it's seems viable to me. Just my opinion though.

[SleepyTimeGal]

Hello Again;

The $100.00 "sampler" price for masks as listed below, is not in the ballpark at all;

Resmed Activa mask=$99.00 at cpap.com
Respironics Simplicity=$89.99 at cpap.com
SNAPP mask from Tiara=$99.00 at cpap.com

Now you are close to $300.00 at internet prices, again, labor costs for maintenance, inventory, packaging, handling, etc. and the prices for new masks would go up. This is just not a feasable idea.

But you know what-there are lots of entrepaneurs out there-if you think this is a viable idea, then try it. See what happens. And there is nothing stopping anyone from contacting another user for a trade.

SleepyTimeGal

[Liam1965]

Ah, but you're forgetting that the sampler wasn't intended as a SALE. The idea was that for $100 you'd get a temporary RENTAL on the various equipment.

So saying $100 won't cover $600 worth of equipment is like asking how Blockbuster can rent a $30 movie for $5. Repeat business is the key.

Liam, who's apparently posted more today SINCE "leaving" than he did all day.

[bozmon]

Can someone 'in the know' explain the sterilization process? I'm not talking about the thorough cleaning that we all go through, but rather a true bacteria killing process. Is it cold sterilization, or is it heat...something like dental tools go through?

This might be a maketable service down the road. I've seen a cleaning kit for sale on eBay...has anyone used these products (daily spray, weekly germ killer, etc?)