Empirical Data for machines?

[Ember1205]

Hi, all.

I've been using an APAP for about five years and am looking to get a new machine. I have a F&P Ikon that served me well until about 8 months ago when I realized that it wasn't functioning properly (taking too long to light the display after connecting power). A bit of research seemed to indicate that some water had made its way down to the lower portion of the machine where the control boards are and was interfering with the power-up of the boards.

I got the machine replaced under warranty because F&P was apparently having this issue with ALL of them and I'm back to where I was before.

Since I travel a bit for work, I do like the reasonable compactness of the F&P and the fact that I can put it inside my rollerboard when I take that as a carry-on. I'd like to get a new machine and keep the F&P as a spare and for travel, but I'm looking for empirical data about the characteristics and features of new machines. Specifically the ResMed and Respironics machines are of interest to me, but I would like to understand the following:

- What is the exact noise level that each machine produces?
- Are the displays always lighted? How many lumens of light is given off in the bright / dim modes of the display?
- Can I figure the display "on" time before it dims?
- Can I cause the display to turn completely off so that there is NO ambient light from it at night?
- Exactly how much data is stored on the machines card / stick / chip at a detailed level? Generalized level?
- How do I get data off the machine on onto my own computer for monitoring?
- How do I get data to my Dr., especially if only a handful of days worth of data is saved locally on the card?
- What are the exact physical dimensions of the machine?
- What is the exact weight of the machine?

I've found a handful of reviews that discuss the different machines, and there are suggestions as a certain one being "better" than others, but I can't seem to find any hard data like the above mentioned items. I want a machine that is quiet, "small", and as unobtrusive as possible when it comes to ambient light. These are all things that I've come to appreciate "wanting" from having owned this particular machine. While it's small and of reasonable weight, it isn't what I would consider silent and I don't like how much light the display gives off at all times.

I like the Autosense 10 and the Dreamstation, but I have no idea if one actually provides better "stats" that then other for the above questions and categories.

I would also be interested in knowing if anyone has any suggestions as to how to go about getting the DME to tell me the final price for a specific machine BEFORE I buy it. My provider, Apria (I abhor them), bills me for everything months after I buy it - that isn't going to work for an expensive machine if I have to return it because it isn't conducive to being unobtrusive for me.

Thanks for any and all pieces of info you can share!

[LSAT]

I think you can do most of this research on your own...go to cpap.com and read about any machine that interests you. Most of your questions will be answered along with hundreds of reviews by users.

[Ember1205]

Thanks for the pointer. I will definitely check it out.

[palerider]

- What is the exact noise level that each machine produces?
- Are the displays always lighted? How many lumens of light is given off in the bright / dim modes of the display?
- Can I figure the display "on" time before it dims?
- Can I cause the display to turn completely off so that there is NO ambient light from it at night?
- Exactly how much data is stored on the machines card / stick / chip at a detailed level? Generalized level?
- How do I get data off the machine on onto my own computer for monitoring?
- How do I get data to my Dr., especially if only a handful of days worth of data is saved locally on the card?
- What are the exact physical dimensions of the machine?
- What is the exact weight of the machine?

I've found a handful of reviews that discuss the different machines, and there are suggestions as a certain one being "better" than others, but I can't seem to find any hard data like the above mentioned items.

much of this "hard data" is available on any site that sells the machines.

[JimW159]

I've found a handful of reviews that discuss the different machines, and there are suggestions as a certain one being "better" than others, but I can't seem to find any hard data like the above mentioned items. I want a machine that is quiet, "small", and as unobtrusive as possible when it comes to ambient light. These are all things that I've come to appreciate "wanting" from having owned this particular machine. While it's small and of reasonable weight, it isn't what I would consider silent and I don't like how much light the display gives off at all times.

I like the Autosense 10 and the Dreamstation, but I have no idea if one actually provides better "stats" that then other for the above questions and categories.

I would also be interested in knowing if anyone has any suggestions as to how to go about getting the DME to tell me the final price for a specific machine BEFORE I buy it. My provider, Apria (I abhor them), bills me for everything months after I buy it - that isn't going to work for an expensive machine if I have to return it because it isn't conducive to being unobtrusive for me.

One difference I have found between the AirSense 10 Auto and DreamStation is in the level of control one can select during setup (or later, if you choose). While in the clinician menu of the AS10, one may select from two levels of access to options: "essentials" & "Plus". The default screen one sees during normal operation is split between "My Options" (top) and "sleep report" (bottom) the large knob to the right of the screen allows one to select between the two for access. The "My Options" screen will show several items over which one has some level of control. They include: (essentials) Ramp Time, Humidity Level (if water tub is in place) and Run Mask Fit. If "Plus" has been selected, other features are added, including: mask type, EPR (if enabled), SmartStart and Run Warmup (if water tub is in place).
In terms of which provides "better" stats, that is largely in the eye of the beholder. If all you want is detailed statistical reports, both will provide them (SleepyHead, IMO, provides the cleanest and most accessible entry point). The specificity of the data will vary between the two brands - largely, this is nomenclature and operational philosophy dependent and I can't advise on a "good, better, best" scenario. Perhaps you might look at the very first item under "announcements" on the home page of this forum. Pugsy's Pointers provides a summary of SleepyHead use and evaluation. Note Bene: in it she often references the ResMed S9; AFAIK one can read that as including the AS10 as well. As to cost, I would just ask them to provide you with a cost breakdown spanning the next year and a statement of how that cost will track over the next five years. Specify you only want the cost of the machine with no maintenance supplies included. Also, ask them to separate the machine and humidifier AS BILLED. If they separate the AS10 humidifier as a separately billed item and it is ongoing, ask why since you cannot get the machine without the humidifier. Once you have real numbers, deduct how much of the cost is your copay and look at that over the year (and five years) - you may find it cheaper to spend some money upfront to buy it from a supplier like cpap.com (and possible quicker, to boot).

[Ember1205]

Thanks for the info, JimW159.

I'll have to try and get the "As billed" information for costs, but I have to be honest - I'm quite lacking of hope in that area. Apria is AWFUL to deal with. When I had operational issues with my F&P machine, they gave me the runaround for almost a month trying to tell me that what I needed was a clinician to show me how to use it. I called my previous supplier (that I was forced to drop because of insurance coverage) and they immediately sent me a brand new machine and took care of the issue.

[JimW159]

Thanks for the info, JimW159.

I'll have to try and get the "As billed" information for costs, but I have to be honest - I'm quite lacking of hope in that area. Apria is AWFUL to deal with. When I had operational issues with my F&P machine, they gave me the runaround for almost a month trying to tell me that what I needed was a clinician to show me how to use it. I called my previous supplier (that I was forced to drop because of insurance coverage) and they immediately sent me a brand new machine and took care of the issue.

Do you think you could get this information from your insurance? Surely, they have a maximum allowable figure for your specific coverage plan. And, equally surely, Apria will be billing the maximum.

[Ember1205]

One of the things that I absolutely HATE about dealing with any sort of health insurance item is that no one will tell you ANYTHING when it comes to cost. The Insurance Company (carrier) says "we need the billing code." The provider often won't tell you the billing code. And, if they do, the carrier invariably says they can't find it in their system.

It's ludicrous that we, as consumers, agree to services and products without ever being able to know what we're going to be billed for those services and products. We need this transparency as consumers, and we should be extremely mad about not having it in the world we live in where everything is done electronically and information is available "instantly."

[LSAT]

One of the things that I absolutely HATE about dealing with any sort of health insurance item is that no one will tell you ANYTHING when it comes to cost. The Insurance Company (carrier) says "we need the billing code." The provider often won't tell you the billing code. And, if they do, the carrier invariably says they can't find it in their system.

It's ludicrous that we, as consumers, agree to services and products without ever being able to know what we're going to be billed for those services and products. We need this transparency as consumers, and we should be extremely mad about not having it in the world we live in where everything is done electronically and information is available "instantly."

It took me about 30 seconds to do a Google search for CPAP Billing codes. Try it some time.
http://www.thecpappeople.com/hcpcs-code ... ement.aspx

[Guest]

Be advised besides the billing code for the cpap you will also have a code for
the humidifier
hose
mask
filters
etc.
did I forget anything?

So its not just the cpap billing code is the point.