To those who got apnea when gaining weight - some optimism

[BlizzardUK]

Note : This is just a message of possible optimism to those who only noticed apnea when they had put on some weight. I will check back on this thread when I am 27 stone to see if it has changed. Obviously everyone is different, and every night is different, so my results could be different tomorrow night or from you.

Back at the end of last year I noticed the effects of sleep apnea, needing to pull over at the road every 15 minutes to stretch my legs or take a nap, and I would also fall asleep over breakfast, need the toilet twice a night, and wake up with killer headaches and dry throat with my lips stuck to my teeth. I was 33 stone then (unsure in pounds or kg) and after losing weight since January I am now 28 stone, so a loss of 5 stone. I sometimes use both a Sp02 recording device for my blood oxygen and a video camera facing me in bed, recoding the whole night. I used to cringe when viewing back the videos and seeing myself gasp for breath every single time I tried to breathe. This prompted me to get CPAP. My blood oxygen would go down to dangerous levels of 30.

Anyway, every stone I lost I would re-check this, both Sp02 and video. Last night I checked when I reached the 28 stone mark. Finally now at 28 stone I noticed no struggle for breath unless I was lying on my back, which I don't normally sleep in, but even then it is not every breath. I also checked my blood oxygen and it was always above 75 (even on my back) and mostly above 80, no drop to 30 like before, or even 70. When I am on my side I slept quietly with barely a snore and no struggle. I know 75 Sp02 is still too low, but that was the occasional peak, not on-going, most were in the 85 to 94 range. My aim is 90% and above all night, which I hope happens at some point, it won't be on my next check monthly though as that is too soon.

What makes me confident is that back before I got my CPAP machine I recorded every night for a while on video and I would gasp for breath every single night on every breath, rather than just some nights. Anyway, this is just a message to let people know there may sometimes be hope for those who gained weight then noticed it. Obviously I can't say if this will stay this way with me, I might be unlucky and relapse, but it is promising if nothing else. I am not going to stop CPAP yet, as I still gasp for breath sometimes when on my back and my blood oxygen is still too low, but it gives me some hope maybe when slim I will be free of it totally. I also woke up feeling fine with no headache or toilet visit in the night, and no dry throat, so things are progressing well.

Thanks all.

[Julie]

To those who may not know it... a 'stone' equals 14 lbs.

[zoocrewphoto]

Are you currently experiencing the better sleep with cpap or without cpap?

I'm confused because you said you aren't ready to stop cpap yet, but at the same time, you are talking about the symptoms being mostly gone. If you are still using cpap, then symptoms being gone usually means good settings, not that you don't need cpap anymore.

[Goofproof]

Too many Stones, and you drown in De-Nile if you fall in.... Jim

[BlizzardUK]

Are you currently experiencing the better sleep with cpap or without cpap?

I'm confused because you said you aren't ready to stop cpap yet, but at the same time, you are talking about the symptoms being mostly gone. If you are still using cpap, then symptoms being gone usually means good settings, not that you don't need cpap anymore.

I guess my point is, to those who find it hard to tolerate CPAP and put on a lot of weight before they noticed it happen, there is a chance one day when slim enough they may be free of CPAP. As mentioned, every time I lose a stone I have one or two nights without using my CPAP machine, on these nights I video record it, audio record it, and use a Sp02 meter. Each stone I have lost I have less gasping for air and better blood oxygen, so although I may never be free of CPAP, I might, if I lose enough weight. It was just a bit of optimism for some of those who panic they are stuck for life once they get it, I have already reduced the level down from 17 to 10 over the last 6 months and still get a -2 AHI. There were some reports out on the net that losing weight isn't a cure for apnea, and in many cases it isn't, but for some it might just be.

So I still use CPAP and will continue, but if one day I find my Sp02 above 92% all night and I don't notice any gasping or headaches or anything (when not using the CPAP machine) then I might stop and see how things go. Maybe even when and if I get slim I might still have apnea, only time and testing will tell.

[49er]

Are you currently experiencing the better sleep with cpap or without cpap?

I'm confused because you said you aren't ready to stop cpap yet, but at the same time, you are talking about the symptoms being mostly gone. If you are still using cpap, then symptoms being gone usually means good settings, not that you don't need cpap anymore.

I guess my point is, to those who find it hard to tolerate CPAP and put on a lot of weight before they noticed it happen, there is a chance one day when slim enough they may be free of CPAP. As mentioned, every time I lose a stone I have one or two nights without using my CPAP machine, on these nights I video record it, audio record it, and use a Sp02 meter. Each stone I have lost I have less gasping for air and better blood oxygen, so although I may never be free of CPAP, I might, if I lose enough weight. It was just a bit of optimism for some of those who panic they are stuck for life once they get it, I have already reduced the level down from 17 to 10 over the last 6 months and still get a -2 AHI. There were some reports out on the net that losing weight isn't a cure for apnea, and in many cases it isn't, but for some it might just be.

So I still use CPAP and will continue, but if one day I find my Sp02 above 92% all night and I don't notice any gasping or headaches or anything (when not using the CPAP machine) then I might stop and see how things go. Maybe even when and if I get slim I might still have apnea, only time and testing will tell.

Hi Blizzard,

As an FYI, I don't have O2 desaturations and I definitely have sleep apnea. Lowest I have ever gone down to is 90% and that was only for a few seconds.

So in my opinion, the best way for you to determine if the weight loss has gotten rid of your apnea on a permanent is to have a sleep study.

In my opinion, I think the statistics are unknown as to whether weight loss cures apnea or not.

Best of luck.

49er

[chunkyfrog]

Losing excess weight is almost always very beneficial to your health.
Sometimes it has NO effect on apnea; but it's still a good thing.
Skinny people often have apnea, but fat people are more often diagnosed.
This does not say as much about apnea as it does about DOCTORS.

[jnk...]

The extent of the effect of weight loss on OSA, as I understand it, tends to correlate to how sudden the weight gain was and how long the increase has lasted.

In other words, if someone suddenly gains a lot of weight and then that weight gain, and solely that weight gain, puts that person over the line into diagnosable OSA territory, then losing the weight may put the person back over the other side of the line into no longer meeting the diagnostic criteria for OSA.

This is, however, not the most common timeline for OSA patients. If, as is more often the case, weight gain has been gradual and the increased weight has been longstanding, then it becomes highly unlikely that loss of weight will have much effect on the OSA, since the brain has already rewired itself in its reactions to, or lack of reactions to, changes in the airway during sleep, and other related conditions are likely already at play. In fact, weight loss, for some with longstanding weight issues, has appeared to increase the severity of OSA if not using PAP.

That, of course, is mostly irrelevant in the context of the health benefits of proper diet and sufficient exercise. Those are always worthy goals for everyone--good health or bad. But in the context of expectations about what weight loss is likely or unlikely to do for an individual OSA patient, a nuanced and informed understanding may save someone some significant disappointment from unfounded expectations based on seeming promises from insufficiently informed doctors.

The cause-and-effect formula is MUCH more complicated than "weight gain causes OSA" OR "OSA causes weight gain," for the vast majority of OSA patients. The conditions are usually separate but related conditions that also interact with and relate to many, many other circumstances of health and well-being.

Optimism has its place. So does pessimism, depending on the issue at hand. But in this area, realism might be a worthy target.

[chunkyfrog]

Too many doctors harbor old predjudices, dating back to the time of Dickens.
{{{Pickwickian Syndrome}}}
Assumptions are so much easier than research or THINKING.

[Huh?]

What makes me confident

Bullship.

[zoocrewphoto]

As mentioned, every time I lose a stone I have one or two nights without using my CPAP machine, on these nights I video record it, audio record it, and use a Sp02 meter.

So, you have no breathing data for the nights without cpap? I barely went below 90% in my sleep study, but I had 273 events in just over 2 hours. Also, you don't have to snore or gasp to have events. My mom doesn't do either. She is silent. But she has obstructive events if she doesn't use her cpap. Without a sleep study, you are guessing wildly.

Something else to consider. Many sleep labs request that cpap users stop using their cpap from several nights before doing a sleep study. Apparently, some people continue to have a few good nights after stopping usage of the cpap, and they want accurate results.

Each stone I have lost I have less gasping for air and better blood oxygen, so although I may never be free of CPAP, I might, if I lose enough weight. It was just a bit of optimism for some of those who panic they are stuck for life once they get it, I have already reduced the level down from 17 to 10 over the last 6 months and still get a -2 AHI. There were some reports out on the net that losing weight isn't a cure for apnea, and in many cases it isn't, but for some it might just be.

So I still use CPAP and will continue, but if one day I find my Sp02 above 92% all night and I don't notice any gasping or headaches or anything (when not using the CPAP machine) then I might stop and see how things go. Maybe even when and if I get slim I might still have apnea, only time and testing will tell.

Those are nice results, and obviously better for your health than not losing weight. But there is a difference between reducing something and curing it. Especially, when sleep apnea often *causes* weight gain. For people who gained weight due to sleep apnea, the cpap helps them lose weight. But if they quit cpap treatment, the weight just comes back on.

The only way to know for sure is a sleep study.

And while I understand you want to give people hope that it is not a lifelong condition, consider this - many people never start cpap treatment because they believe that losing weight will cure sleep apnea. They convince themselves that they just need to lose weight, and why bother with a machine. So, they never start treatment, and they never lose the weight either. Too many people suffer for YEARS with sleep apnea because of the mostly false belief that they can cure it with weight loss.

I would rather believe this is lifelong and be pleasantly surprised to find it gone if if lose weight, then hope for years and never reach that goal.