Soliciting opinions on S9 humidifier funniness

[Paul_H]

Greetings:

The humidifier of my S9 Autoset is acting strangely, though I’m not 100% sure it is out of the ordinary, as I’ve never really checked this out before.

Here’s the situation. As you owners of these machines will know, there is a dim light that shines on the inside of the humidifier when the machine is turned on, and also when heating up and cooling down. It is orange when the humidifier has been heating, as a warning to be careful to handle it. It turns blue when the humidifier has cooled down. So far so good?

The problem: if I remove the tank from the humidifier, hold the temperature button for 3 seconds, it starts warming up, and I can feel the metal plate warming if I touch it. Sounds like it’s working. However, if I awake in the night and remove the tank, even though the orange light is on, it is stone cold. This happens at every temperature and humidity setting I’ve been using, and I’ve been playing with those recently.

Does this sound like I should be taking the machine back to the DME where I got it for repairs under warrantee?

I’ve having a small amount of rainout in my nose pillow mask recently too, (ResMed P10), though I have a heated hose and the mask section of the hose has a hose cover around it. Just a little bit, but enough to be irritating. I’ve tried a lot of combinations of temp and humidity, but it still happens. Could this be related to the above?

Thanks for your opinions.

Paul

[palerider]

However, if I awake in the night and remove the tank, even though the orange light is on, it is stone cold. ...I’ve having a small amount of rainout in my nose pillow mask recently too, ... I’ve tried a lot of combinations of temp and humidity, but it still happens. Could this be related to the above?

if you're getting rainout, you're getting moisture.

if your humidifier isn't heating (even though you've demonstrated that it is) you're getting added moisture.

so, yes, rainout is related to heating of the tank.

the amount of moisture added, (controlled by the temp of the water) varies based on not only your setting, but the humidity in the room.

does the amount of water in the tank decrease by the same amount every night?

what's your room humidity.

lots of variables.

[Paul_H]

However, if I awake in the night and remove the tank, even though the orange light is on, it is stone cold. ...I’ve having a small amount of rainout in my nose pillow mask recently too, ... I’ve tried a lot of combinations of temp and humidity, but it still happens. Could this be related to the above?

if you're getting rainout, you're getting moisture.

if your humidifier isn't heating (even though you've demonstrated that it is) you're getting added moisture.

so, yes, rainout is related to heating of the tank.

the amount of moisture added, (controlled by the temp of the water) varies based on not only your setting, but the humidity in the room.

does the amount of water in the tank decrease by the same amount every night?

what's your room humidity.

lots of variables.

Thanks for your reply. I'm not sure the humidifier is heating, though as I said, in the initial stage of preheating I can feel heat. However, under various conditions of heat/humidity settings, when I awake in the night, as I said, it is stone cold. I wonder if there's a thermocouple in the unit that has failed, or something. Maybe works for a while and then quits. Humidity in my home and bedroom is around 50-55% consistently all winter, and temperature 19-20C. I've tried running the unit at room temp, and various other temps and humidity settings, same result. The tank does appear to decrease by roughly the same amount every night, though it seems less than it once was, before I noticed this problem. I have not changed my pressure setting range, which is quite high - 15-20 - and used to use an entire tank if I slept over 8 hours or so, now I'm only using perhaps somewhat more than half.

I can't really nail down the specifics with precision, as I only started noticing that something was awry over a period of weeks or longer, and only the last couple of days started checking the water container for its warmth or lack thereof, in the middle of the night. I usually get up to pee about twice a night; tonight I'll check it both times.

I appreciate your input.

[Pugsy]

Do you have another spare Climateline hose to try to make sure that there's nothing wrong with the sensors in the hose that could be sending erroneous data to the machine/humidifier?

[billbolton]

The humidifier will initially "warm up" quickly, and the heating plate will be warm to touch at that time, but unless you deliberately have the temperature manually cranked up to a very high level, there is in fact very little heat needed to sustain the water in the humidifier at the sort of temperatures that most of us will use.

In other words, it's quite normal for most users to find that the plate does not feel "warm" during the night

[Paul_H]

Do you have another spare Climateline hose to try to make sure that there's nothing wrong with the sensors in the hose that could be sending erroneous data to the machine/humidifier?

Hi Pugsy:

Thanks for the idea. Good plan. I am making an appointment with my DME to look at the machine, and perhaps they can give me a loaner hose.

[Paul_H]

The humidifier will initially "warm up" quickly, and the heating plate will be warm to touch at that time, but unless you deliberately have the temperature manually cranked up to a very high level, there is in fact very little heat needed to sustain the water in the humidifier at the sort of temperatures that most of us will use.

In other words, it's quite normal for most users to find that the plate does not feel "warm" during the night

I think I understand what you're saying, but I'm not sure the plate and the water tank should feel completely cold at random times. Same thing last night when I checked twice. Zero warmth at all.

As I said, I only started monitoring this recently when I became aware there was a problem, but I do distinctly remember in times past if I slept late, taking the container out to top it up else it ran out of water, and the thing would always be at least noticeably warm.

[palerider]

The humidifier will initially "warm up" quickly, and the heating plate will be warm to touch at that time, but unless you deliberately have the temperature manually cranked up to a very high level, there is in fact very little heat needed to sustain the water in the humidifier at the sort of temperatures that most of us will use.

In other words, it's quite normal for most users to find that the plate does not feel "warm" during the night

I think I understand what you're saying, but I'm not sure the plate and the water tank should feel completely cold at random times. Same thing last night when I checked twice. Zero warmth at all.

As I said, I only started monitoring this recently when I became aware there was a problem, but I do distinctly remember in times past if I slept late, taking the container out to top it up else it ran out of water, and the thing would always be at least noticeably warm.

are you feeling at you're suffering from low humidity, or are you just worried that the water feels too cool... and, I'd say, without sticking a thermometer in it, you can't reliably tell by feel how warm it is. ie, is it room temp, or somewhere between room temp and body temp.

point being, I've seen lots of people puzzled by how the modern machines don't have hot water in them all the time, or how water usage varies... and it's all because they adapt themselves to current conditions.

I think the most important thing is.... are you still comfortable, if you're not feeling dried out, then maybe you should quit worrying over it and go back to sleep.

[Paul_H]

The humidifier will initially "warm up" quickly, and the heating plate will be warm to touch at that time, but unless you deliberately have the temperature manually cranked up to a very high level, there is in fact very little heat needed to sustain the water in the humidifier at the sort of temperatures that most of us will use.

In other words, it's quite normal for most users to find that the plate does not feel "warm" during the night

I think I understand what you're saying, but I'm not sure the plate and the water tank should feel completely cold at random times. Same thing last night when I checked twice. Zero warmth at all.

As I said, I only started monitoring this recently when I became aware there was a problem, but I do distinctly remember in times past if I slept late, taking the container out to top it up else it ran out of water, and the thing would always be at least noticeably warm.

are you feeling at you're suffering from low humidity, or are you just worried that the water feels too cool... and, I'd say, without sticking a thermometer in it, you can't reliably tell by feel how warm it is. ie, is it room temp, or somewhere between room temp and body temp.

point being, I've seen lots of people puzzled by how the modern machines don't have hot water in them all the time, or how water usage varies... and it's all because they adapt themselves to current conditions.

I think the most important thing is.... are you still comfortable, if you're not feeling dried out, then maybe you should quit worrying over it and go back to sleep.

I'm pretty comfortable, except for the rainout I'm getting in my nose pillow mask, which I did not get in the past. I'm not worrying too much about it, but since the machine is still under warrantee, and is demonstrably not working right, I might as well get it repaired for free while I can. I can easily tell between even a tiny bit warm and stone cold, and stone cold is all I've been finding recently when checking it at random times during the night.

[palerider]

is demonstrably not working right, I might as well get it repaired for free while I can. I can easily tell between even a tiny bit warm and stone cold, and stone cold is all I've been finding recently when checking it at random times during the night.

the point is that it's not "demonstrably not working right".

you have an automatic machine, that's responding to the current climate in your bedroom in an automated fashion, it's not designed to stay hot all night in all conditions.

is it broken? maybe, is it working? maybe. it's certainly ABLE to work, as you've demonstrated...

[ericob]

I'm pretty comfortable, except for the rainout I'm getting in my nose pillow mask, which I did not get in the past. . . .

Just a thought, but if the sensor in the hose has failed somehow ("broken wire?") then I could see that the machine might just default to no hose heat (hence the rainout) and no humidifier heating (hence cold heater after startup and far less water being used than normal.

Even without the humidifier heater, I can certainly understand if some water is being used: all that air is blowing right over a puddle of water... the air is likely to pickup at least some of the water.

[Pugsy]

Condensation in the nasal pillows themselves can happen even with a normally working heated hose....if the bedroom air is cool enough and there is enough moisture in the air in the nasal pillow.
Most nasal pillow masks have short hoses and in a colder bedroom the air will start cooling fairly rapidly in the short hose going to the nasal pillow mask after it leaves the heated hose...and also when we exhale we are dumping moisture into that nasal pillow...so there's a good chance of considerable moisture in the nasal pillow mask that gets cooled down and the moisture gets released in the form of condensation.
Sometimes we have to insulate the short hose too...along with using a heated hose...or maybe use one of Karen's barrel cozies
http://www.padacheek.com/PACSwiftII_Barrel_cozy.html
especially if someone does like me and pretty much prefers maximum humidity and prefers a cold bedroom.
Been there myself due to my preferences and the barrel cozy was probably the best money I ever spent on a comfort item.

[Nick Danger]

Remember, the max water temperature is going to be in the 80's. That will probably feel cool to you when you touch it. I agree with Bill that once the water gets up to temperature, the heater doesn't need to cycle on for very long to keep it there.