Cpap, asleep or awake?

Logies101 · Post by **Logies101** » Thu Jan 08, 2015 9:06 pm

Ok this may be the dumb question of the day but here goes....can the CPAP machine detect when you are asleep/awake? Is there a graph in Sleepyhead that shows the difference?

Julie · Post by **Julie** » Thu Jan 08, 2015 9:15 pm

It's designed to read things according to a sleep pattern of breathing, which is different from awake ones.

cathyf · Post by **cathyf** » Thu Jan 08, 2015 9:28 pm

There are distinctive patterns in the regularity of your flow rate, flow limitations, snore, and respiration rate that generally indicate whether you are awake or in various stages of sleep. That is more "educated guess" than science, though. Apparently I snore quite a lot when I'm awake! (Here is a conversation which I have had many times with my husband, and it has come back to bite me big time in the butt!)

Me: You were snoring.
Him: I wasn't asleep.
Me: If you were making that racket while asleep, you can't help that. If you were making that racket while awake, you are in BIG trouble!!! Would you like to reconsider your story?

LSAT · Post by **LSAT** » Thu Jan 08, 2015 9:29 pm

NO...it cannot tell if you are awake or asleep. As Julie said...It reads breathing patterns.

chunkyfrog · Post by **chunkyfrog** » Thu Jan 08, 2015 9:37 pm

To use the machine while awake is helpful for congestion while sick, but some may do so to make compliance in order to keep a machine, which is also valid. It may also help in getting accustomed to the machine, so go for it. A caution, if you are driving, you need cpap while asleep in order to function safely. Please be safe.

cathyf · Post by **cathyf** » Thu Jan 08, 2015 9:37 pm

The A10 at least has an algorithm that it uses to decide when it can cut out of ramp and head to your minimum pressure when it decides that you have fallen asleep if the machine is set to AUTO for ramp. It's in the manual... For me it was pretty good, back before I turned ramp off. On the other end, though, the machine can't figure out that I've woken up, even though it's pretty obvious because I don't have FLs when I'm awake and I have them pretty continuously while I'm asleep.

Wulfman... · Post by **Wulfman...** » Thu Jan 08, 2015 9:42 pm

Logies101 wrote:Ok this may be the dumb question of the day but here goes....can the CPAP machine detect when you are asleep/awake? Is there a graph in Sleepyhead that shows the difference?

Nope. And, it doesn't know. It just responds to "air flow".......your breathing.

However, one company, Fisher & Paykel advertises this technology. Unfortunately, the software for their machines is somewhat of an unknown commodity. I'm not sure if I've read of anybody being able to get their hands on it......but, maybe. I've definitely never seen any posted reports from it.

https://www.fphcare.com/sleep-apnea/cli ... sensawake/

Den

.

palerider · Post by **palerider** » Thu Jan 08, 2015 9:48 pm

Wulfman... wrote:However, one company, Fisher & Paykel advertises this technology. Unfortunately, the software for their machines is somewhat of an unknown commodity. I'm not sure if I've read of anybody being able to get their hands on it......but, maybe. I've definitely never seen any posted reports from it.

sleepyhead supports the F&P Icon and sensawake.

I've seen a few people posting SH screenshots here.

palerider · Post by **palerider** » Thu Jan 08, 2015 9:50 pm

cathyf wrote:The A10 at least has an algorithm that it uses to decide when it can cut out of ramp and head to your minimum pressure when it decides that you have fallen asleep if the machine is set to AUTO for ramp.

I believe that it doesn't start ramp until it decides you're asleep.

When Ramp Time is set to Auto, the device will detect sleep onset and then gradually increase from the start pressure to the minimum treatment pressure at a rate of 1 cm H 2 O per minute. However, if sleep onset is not detected, the device will reach the target pressure within 30 minutes.

Wulfman... · Post by **Wulfman...** » Thu Jan 08, 2015 9:57 pm

palerider wrote:
Wulfman... wrote:However, one company, Fisher & Paykel advertises this technology. Unfortunately, the software for their machines is somewhat of an unknown commodity. I'm not sure if I've read of anybody being able to get their hands on it......but, maybe. I've definitely never seen any posted reports from it.
sleepyhead supports the F&P Icon and sensawake.

I've seen a few people posting SH screenshots here.

Now that you mentioned that, I seem to remember it being discussed.
I'm sure it would be an improvement over what I see in the link on their site.

https://www.fphcare.com/sleep-apnea/inf ... smart-web/

Den

.

Dirty Martini · Post by **Dirty Martini** » Thu Jan 08, 2015 10:08 pm

While I can't explain the "hows" of the SenseAwake feature, I am a F&P Auto user and a relative newbie (end of October). When I received the machine the "SenseAwake" feature was not enable by DME--wasn't even mentioned. While I have mild to moderate apnea and low pressure needs (my average is around 4.5, my 95th percentile is 6), apparently I do have an occasional need (1 or 2 x week) for more serious pressure (16 or so). The problem was that whenever the pressure got that high, it was always waking me up. After being frustrated with being jolted awake with gale force air and having it blow out my mouth and elsewhere, I decided to set up the SenseAwake feature a week ago.

I've been quite pleased by it. It does sense my awaking and if my pressure is at that time blowing higher, it will drop it down. I have NOT been waking up in the middle of the night with near the frequency. Overall it does keep my average pressures a tad lower than before, and my AHI has gone up just a tiny bit, but I'm still well under 2 (over the last week I've been averaging 1.2-1.5, last night I was .6).

I want to give it another couple of weeks to get enough of a "before and after" to decide if I'm keeping it enabled....but its looking so far to be a positive feature for me.

Logies101 · Post by **Logies101** » Thu Jan 08, 2015 10:20 pm

Ah okay, very interesting. I'm not using it while awake for compliance or otherwise, I was just curious if it somehow could detect the difference so I could actually see how long it took me to go to sleep. Thanks for the responses.

palerider · Post by **palerider** » Thu Jan 08, 2015 10:38 pm

Logies101 wrote:Ah okay, very interesting. I'm not using it while awake for compliance or otherwise, I was just curious if it somehow could detect the difference so I could actually see how long it took me to go to sleep. Thanks for the responses.

there generally are subtle differences in asleep and awake breathing,

Logies101 · Post by **Logies101** » Thu Jan 08, 2015 10:47 pm

palerider wrote:
Logies101 wrote:Ah okay, very interesting. I'm not using it while awake for compliance or otherwise, I was just curious if it somehow could detect the difference so I could actually see how long it took me to go to sleep. Thanks for the responses.
there generally are subtle differences in asleep and awake breathing, here's a couple examples: http://www.osahelp.com/#6

Wow that link was very informative, thanks Palerider!

TangledHose · Post by **TangledHose** » Thu Jan 08, 2015 10:49 pm

I've used both the Sense awake on the F&P, and the Auto Ramp on the Airsense...........as far as my experience goes they are both highly inaccurate at best. The Sense Awake was so ridiculous it didn't take me long to just turn it off. I have the F&P software for the computer and I have looked at the graphs as well as feeling the machine ramp up while I am still wide awake counting sheep. The Airsense Auto Ramp I think is just a little better at detecting that you are asleep, again by using an algorithm that determines you are asleep by measuring air flow rhythm changes, as has been stated above, but it's just an edjucated guess by the machine. Many times with the Auto Ramp I feel it ramping up and I am still very much awake. So although they are somewhat accurate at guessing your sleep state, they are far from perfect at this point in their evolution.........more marketing fluff than anything else IMHO

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