Taping vs. Chinstrap vs. Hybrid vs. Full Face

mtsarpilot · Post by **mtsarpilot** » Sun Jul 30, 2006 5:34 am

Given the extreme dryness in my throat and mouth, folks have suggested I must be mouth breathing. I tried taping last night (night 5 on CPAP) and indeed, that solved the dryness. I guess I am a mouth breather

Next step then it so decide what to do about it. I have read through the archives on the comments about taping and chinstraps, etc.. But have not found much on the merits of each and how to decide which is best.

What have people found that have led them to the solution you have ultimately stuck with? Why not just use a chinstrap? Or the hybrid mask, or a full face mask, etc?

I'm inclined to try the hybrid mask, but it is an expensive trial if you find it does not work for you. Do they give a money back guarantee or a trial period?

Thanks,

Joel

kparlee · Post by **kparlee** » Sun Jul 30, 2006 5:59 am

Hi Joel. I'm having the same problem as you (night 2) but I'm using a full face mask with a humidifier unit. I know I breathe through my mouth and my Respironics Comfortfull 2 mask is fitted so that the only way I can sleep without leaks is with my mouth open. I try to close my mouth and I get the mask farts and air leaks at the bottom. If I open my mouth again, everything is fine. At least I got that figured out which allowed me to sleep last night relatively uninterrupted.

The problem is however that regardless whether the humidity level is on max or down a few notches, I still get a very dry mouth. One would think that with the added humidity that I shouldn't get a case of dry mouth. To combat this, last night I tried the unit on max humidity (4 out of 4) but that didn't work and I had droplets of water running down my cheeks and dripping from the hose opening - too much.

At about 4am, I went for a drink of water then upon returning to bed, I dropped the humidity down to a 3.0. That seemed to reduce the water droplets enough but I still had a bad case of dry mouth.

A few questions then arise.

I wonder also if I should try taping my mouth and refitting the mask?

Is there a possibility that this dry mouth syndrome can cause future problems like sores in my mouth or others?

Would another CPAP machine with a different humidity unit do any better (not likely)?

Should I also consider the hybrid mask for not only comfort reasons but also to allow me to close my mouth?

It seems that it doesn't really affect my sleep other than the fact that I have to peel my cheek away from the inside of my mouth with my tongue and get a serious glass of water when I wake up.

maskjkie · Post by **maskjkie** » Sun Jul 30, 2006 8:13 am

mtsarpilot wrote:Given the extreme dryness in my throat and mouth, folks have suggested I must be mouth breathing. I tried taping last night (night 5 on CPAP) and indeed, that solved the dryness. I guess I am a mouth breather

Next step then it so decide what to do about it. I have read through the archives on the comments about taping and chinstraps, etc.. But have not found much on the merits of each and how to decide which is best.

What have people found that have led them to the solution you have ultimately stuck with? Why not just use a chinstrap? Or the hybrid mask, or a full face mask, etc?

I'm inclined to try the hybrid mask, but it is an expensive trial if you find it does not work for you. Do they give a money back guarantee or a trial period?

Joel,
You need to consider several factors in evaluating your different options to address mouthbreathing.

1. Chin Strap: Though it helps keep the mouth closed, the upward force it applies narrows the airway and more apneas/hypopneas occur and you may need a higher pressure.

2. Mouth Tape: It is not very hygenic plus you may be allergic.

3. Full Face Mask: Is very uncomfortable, leaky, you may have issues with nosebridge sores etc. Also AHI tends to be higher with a FF mask.

4. Hybrid: My preferred solution because it will encourage you to keep the mouth closed if you are a nasal breather but will allow you to open the mouth if the nares are blocked. Many of my patients are reporting lower AHI (less than 2) with Hybrid and they say they feel refreshed. Yes, it is about $25 more expensive than a regular FF mask. Contrary to what some people say, it does work on more people than not. I have had fitting issues with only 2 patients out of more than 15 I have titrated with this hybrid.

Goofproof · Post by **Goofproof** » Sun Jul 30, 2006 10:21 am

Sucess in order of chance, highest first.

FF Mask or Taping 100%......

Hybrid another FF Mask??? if it fits.

Chin Straps, not likely....

Anything else, a Crap Shoot....

linda b · Post by **linda b** » Sun Jul 30, 2006 11:24 am

I've been on APAP therapy since May 11, 2006 and have been using Super Poligrip Strips on my lips since May 13th. Two nights using a chin strap were all it took to convince me to try something else.

The Poligrip Strips work very well for me. To the best of my knowledge, I haven't had any mouth breathing problems while using them. The one week-long report I have based on SmartCard report from DME, there were no leaks beyond normals for my mask. And, prior to APAP, I would drool every night! No drool now, none at all.

They are easy to use and easy to remove with absolutely NO irritation to my lips. Simply open one up, cut in half (makes two strips about 3/4" each), hold one piece on the corner with a pair of tweezers, get the strip wet (I have a little cup of water on my dressing table for 'dipping'), lay it on one side of the bottom lip, repeat with the other piece for the other side of bottom lip (for my mouth size, this leaves a small gap at the middle of the lip about 1/4" wide, just wide enough to poke a straw in for a sip of water), close mouth pressing lips together tightly for a few seconds. Then you can relax and lips will be held together. The really cool thing is that if you HAVE to (such as having to talk), you CAN pop open your mouth. If you do that, you may be able to reseal by simply licking whichever lip they are not still stuck to and re-pressing lips together again.

For removal, I start at the corner of my lip and 'curl' the sticky tape up into a little ball as it rolls toward the center. Then wipe off any residue left on lips with a wash cloth, paper towel, even toilet paper if that's what is handy. No creams, no oils, no special goo removers required.

I get my strips at Wal-Mart for about $4 a box of 40. So this only costs about ten cents a night. I certainly think it is worth a try before spending a bundle on different masks!

oldgearhead · Post by **oldgearhead** » Sun Jul 30, 2006 11:26 am

Since I do both CL2 plus Durapore tape, and the Hybrid. I can give my recent experiences with both.

If I have absolutely no congestion, the CL2 + tape is cooler, it leaks less, and I can run the humidifier higher. However, if I have any nasal congestion the Hybrid is far better. The Hybrid will deliver plenty of nasal air, even with one nasal passage plugged up. Of course if both nasal passages become 'stopped up', I can breathe through my mouth with the Hybrid.

A good example is last night:

1) Cleaned nasal passages with saline solution.
2) 10:20P - Taped mouth, put on Cl2 and went to sleep.
3) 1:30A - Woke up with a 'stopped up' nose and a very wet mouth tape.
4) 1:45A - Switched to Hybrid.
5) 8:20A - Time to get up, my mouth is a bit dry and both nasal passages are congested. However, I slept very well.

Maybe I'm conditioned to the Hybrid, because I'm now having trouble using my trusty CL2...???

Maryb · Post by **Maryb** » Sun Jul 30, 2006 11:31 am

Joel-
I was using a Swift nasal pillows mask which I loved (so lightweight and comfy) but I was battling a serious mouthleak problem. Very dry mouth just as you describe. I was using it up ALL the water in my humidifier each night. And my leak rate was horrendous (>.6). So I started trying everything to fix the mouth leak problem.
I tried tape which works for some people but irritated my skin, came loose and made me sweat and drool (nice, huh?).
I tried a chinstrap which was worthless.
I tried polygrip strips which sort of helped.
I tried to train myself to place my tongue right and keep my mouth shut which didn't work at all.
With everything I tried, I still had the high leakrates!

Until I tried the Hybrid.
I have been struggling with the hybrid to make it more comfortable (NOTHING is as comfortable as my Swift was) and to fit better. I think the hybrid might work better for men than women or for some face types better than others.
But it clearly completely gets rid of mouth leaks and so I aim to stick with it. It's that or a full face mask which would have an even larger footprint on your face. Plus I prefer the nasal pillows.
So in mho, I think your best options are a full face mask of which the Hybrid is a new type and second best option if you can't tolerate a ff mask, try tape and/or polygrip strips.
good luck on your journey (that is what it's been for me!).
Maryb

Missy · Post by **Missy** » Sun Jul 30, 2006 11:33 am

I am dealing with the change from the nasal interface mask along with mouth taping to a full face mask. I started having problems with my mask almost as soon as I started taping the trap shut. I don't know-it's probably just a fluke, so, anyway.....I have started using a full face mask. It's a F&P FlexiFit 431. I tried the Mirage for 1/2 of a night, but found it very uncomfortable and could not get a good fit. I really like my F&P mask. The first 2 nights were Hell, but I actually think that it's easier to use than my former mask (Comfortlite 2). I was really resistant to the full face because of the horror stories I've read on this board. It's really not bad, and in fact the FF has given me the longest period of solid sleep since I started my therapy on May 25,2006. Hope this helps. Keep on seeking for YOUR solution. It's out there! Good luck!

Snoozin' Bluezzz · Post by **Snoozin' Bluezzz** » Sun Jul 30, 2006 12:44 pm

I used the Hybrid over a 2 week period when I had a cold and severe congestion and it worked quite well for me but I got tired of the "extra" footprint so I returned to my Swift. I have consistently had the best success with the Swift - AHI around 1.0 v. AHI 3-5 with Hybrid. I also suffered from mouthleaks and went with the chinstrap (no success and extremely uncomfortable for me), tape (worked quite well) and finally the Poligrip strips. I prefer the Poligrip strips which also work very well for me. Leak rate low, AHI low and no dry mouth. Like Linda B I find that if I need to open my mouth (I'm still coughing some) I can with just a little effort and then I can reseal easily and this works for multiple instances. They remove easily, don't irritate and the adhesive residue wipes off easily with a little water and tissue. I find them very non-intrusive (just like somewhat sticky lips), very effective and highly recommend them. My pressure is relatively low, 9cm H2O so I don't know if they are less effective at higher pressures.

I am keeping the Hybrid for rotation and those days when congestion will not permit effective use of the Swift but otherwise I'll go with the Swift and Poli-grip strips.

Hope this helps.

David

inacpapfog · Post by **inacpapfog** » Sun Jul 30, 2006 3:50 pm

I also loved the Swift for its ease of use and no leaks!
It was only because of the mouthleaks that I had to try to find another solution. ( If I had just been able to use mouthtape only , I probably would have stuck with my Swift. My problem was having to tape AND I had to use the Deluxe chin strap to keep my cheecks from ballooning! )
The Hybrid works well for me! (The higher leak numbers that I get are most probably associated with the vents!)
My pressure and AHI has dropped 2 points, not to mention, I feel great!

new2 · Post by **new2** » Sun Jul 30, 2006 3:57 pm

My mouth is a little dry sometimes in the morning and I have the hybrid mask. Dry or not, what a relief it is to be able to open my mouth at night if I want!!!

maskjkie · Post by **maskjkie** » Sun Jul 30, 2006 7:50 pm

new2 wrote:My mouth is a little dry sometimes in the morning and I have the hybrid mask. Dry or not, what a relief it is to be able to open my mouth at night if I want!!!

New2,
Since you have the Remstar M Series Pro C-Flex CPAP Machine with the Encore Pro SmartCard, have you been monitoring your AHI values? You state that your second favorite is the Flexifit HC431 FF, were you using that mask before the Hybrid? I'm wondering if you noticed any difference in AHI values between the Flexifit HC431 FF and the Hybrid mask.

mtsarpilot · Post by **mtsarpilot** » Mon Jul 31, 2006 5:57 am

I see a lot of people suggesting the Swift and Polygrip strips. I'm gonna give the strips a try and see how it does. I taped for the 2nd night last night and it still solves the dryness although I notice the cheeks ballooning out a lot and some air leek from the mouth.

How does the Swift compare to the CL2? Anyone tried both of them? I sleep on my chest mostly, with my head to the side. I tend to use both sides. Thus I was considering the CL2 as it appears to have less material sticking out the sides to get in the way with the head layed on it's side.

What have folks found?

Thanks,

Joel

mtsarpilot · Post by **mtsarpilot** » Mon Jul 31, 2006 6:58 am

I see a lot of people suggesting the Swift and Polygrip strips. I'm gonna give the strips a try and see how it does. I taped for the 2nd night last night and it still solves the dryness although I notice the cheeks ballooning out a lot and some air leek from the mouth.

How does the Swift compare to the CL2? Anyone tried both of them? I sleep on my chest mostly, with my head to the side. I tend to use both sides. Thus I was considering the CL2 as it appears to have less material sticking out the sides to get in the way with the head layed on it's side.

What have folks found?

Thanks,

Joel

oldgearhead · Post by **oldgearhead** » Mon Jul 31, 2006 9:02 am

The CL2 is a pretty good side sleeper, if you 'kinda' hold the headgear in place wehn you turn over. I have never tried sleeping on my stomach. It might be agood idea though, I could rock myself to sleep...

Taping vs. Chinstrap vs. Hybrid vs. Full Face

Taping vs. Chinstrap vs. Hybrid vs. Full Face

RE: Taping vs. Chinstrap vs. Hybrid vs. Full Face

Re: Taping vs. Chinstrap vs. Hybrid vs. Full Face