Traded One Problem For Another

General Discussion on any topic relating to CPAP and/or Sleep Apnea.
sleepydc
Posts: 71
Joined: Sun Aug 04, 2013 9:55 am

Re: Traded One Problem For Another

Post by sleepydc » Sat Jan 17, 2015 9:29 am

Laurora wrote:I wish I could but I am a full on mouth breather at night. Laying down just doesn't allow me to get enough air when I (attempt to!) breathe through my nose. I worry that a nose mask/chin strap would make me too panicky, but I'm willing to give it a shot down the line once I adjust a little more to this new lifestyle!

Sounds like you've got some great suggestions and are on a good path! One thought for the future: some of us have found the "partial taping system" works very well with full face masks (FFMs), and I'm sure some have found it works with other types of masks, too. I had to use the FFM for similar reasons to yours but still had some problems with leaks and little "air burps" waking me up, and then found that partial taping helped eliminate those problems.....

_________________
Mask: Quattro™ Air Full Face Mask with Headgear
Additional Comments: Settings 9.5 to 11; PR SYSTEM ONE REMSTAR 60 series autocpap 560 with aflex

User avatar
JQLewis
Posts: 180
Joined: Fri Apr 11, 2014 10:05 am
Location: New York City

Re: Traded One Problem For Another

Post by JQLewis » Sat Jan 17, 2015 1:02 pm

I was also a lifelong mouth breather. I never knew there was anything wrong with that. Then I found that while using a FFM I was suffering very bad dry mouth, which was actually interrupting my sleep. I decided to try to train myself to nose breathe. At first I did it while wearing the FFM, and I could tell I was succeeding when the dry mouth symptoms disappeared.Then I made the transition to a nasal mask. I've found it much more comfortable. There are plenty of good tips available here as to how to make that transition, if you're interested. Good luck.

_________________
Mask: AirFit™ N10 Nasal CPAP Mask with Headgear
Humidifier: S9™ Series H5i™ Heated Humidifier with Climate Control
Additional Comments: Sleepyhead, Sleep Studies done 3/14, AHI 85.6
Sleep Study-Titration Study
Help find the undiagnosed. Send me a PM if you'd like to help (http://osaaction.org)

User avatar
Laurora
Posts: 22
Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2015 7:02 pm

Re: Traded One Problem For Another

Post by Laurora » Sun Jan 18, 2015 8:53 am

Thanks all! Unfortunately for me, short of surgery, I'll never be able to completely breathe through my nose. I was born this way (baby!). It's frustrating but after 35 years, I've accepted it. Hence my hesitance to use just a nasal mask.

Also unfortunate is that I've lost my good attitude: I had one good night but since then can't replicate the good seal and wake up every 30-45 minutes with huge leaks. Tightening doesn't help, nor does loosening the mask. I've tried with liner and without. With bandage on the bridge of my nose, and then without (all in the same night). I'm so tired that I cried at breakfast this morning. I really need to get this figured out so I can feel human again.

_________________
Mask: Swift™ FX Nano For Her Nasal CPAP Mask with Headgear
Humidifier: S9™ Series H5i™ Heated Humidifier with Climate Control
Additional Comments: Also use tape to prevent mouth from dropping open during sleep.

User avatar
Jay Aitchsee
Posts: 2936
Joined: Sun May 22, 2011 12:47 pm
Location: Southwest Florida

Re: Traded One Problem For Another

Post by Jay Aitchsee » Sun Jan 18, 2015 11:53 am

How about practicing before you go to bed? Set aside some time, maybe in the afternoon, to practice in your normal sleeping position. See if you can't adjust the mask so that it is comfortable and doesn't leak. Review the manufacture's suggestions on how to don and adjust the headgear. There are videos on line as well as the pamphlet that comes with the mask. If you find a promising set-up, leave it so to wear at night. It is important to adjust your mask while in your sleeping position as the fit will be different then when sitting or standing.
Consider asking your provider for a sleep aid (like ambien) to use while you are learning to master the therapy.
Hang in there!

_________________
Mask: AirFit™ P10 Nasal Pillow CPAP Mask with Headgear
Additional Comments: S9 Auto, P10 mask, P=7.0, EPR3, ResScan 5.3, SleepyHead V1.B2, Windows 10, ZEO, CMS50F, Infrared Video

User avatar
JQLewis
Posts: 180
Joined: Fri Apr 11, 2014 10:05 am
Location: New York City

Re: Traded One Problem For Another

Post by JQLewis » Sun Jan 18, 2015 2:09 pm

You may simply need to try a different mask (there are a lot of different designs). A lot of people report good leak prevention from using mask liners (which can also help with "mask marks").

Another question is when do these leaks occur? Are you using the "mask fit" feature to make sure you're at least starting out the night with a good fit? Personally I find leaks increase as the night goes on. I always start and end the night with leaks way below redline, but in the middle, during the deepest phases of sleep, the leaks increase. Again, this is much more of a problem for me with a FFM than a nasal mask. The jaw position changes so much during sleep. A FFM has so many more points of contact with the face.

One benefit of CPAP is that the air pressure can help splint open your nasal passages in the same way that the positive air pressure is designed to splint open your throat. I was also convinced that after 55 years of mouth breathing, changing such a basic fact of my life would be impossible.

_________________
Mask: AirFit™ N10 Nasal CPAP Mask with Headgear
Humidifier: S9™ Series H5i™ Heated Humidifier with Climate Control
Additional Comments: Sleepyhead, Sleep Studies done 3/14, AHI 85.6
Sleep Study-Titration Study
Help find the undiagnosed. Send me a PM if you'd like to help (http://osaaction.org)

User avatar
Jay Aitchsee
Posts: 2936
Joined: Sun May 22, 2011 12:47 pm
Location: Southwest Florida

Re: Traded One Problem For Another

Post by Jay Aitchsee » Sun Jan 18, 2015 3:05 pm

And to kind of carry on JQ's comments, make sure you have the right size cushion. The nice thing about the Simplus is the fact that size changes require only changing the cushion, not the whole mask. Here's the sizing guide, courtesy of CPAP.com, not the best, but...Size. The top of the mask should be about eye level and the bottom fall into the indentation between the chin and lips. The right size should feel like it fits naturally.
To get an idea of how the mask should be tightened, lie down with the mask to the face under pressure, but without the headgear attached. It should only take gentle pressure from your fingers to seat it and stop it from leaking (if it is the right size). This, then, is the same pressure the straps should apply when attached.
Sometimes people's chin will drop so much in deep sleep that it will fall out of the bottom of the mask, or nearly so, and cause leaks. One way to prevent that is to take a strip of soft cloth about an inch wide and 18 inches long, or so, place it under the chin, up between the face and the lower straps of the mask, and back down under the chin to tie. This works kind of like a chin strap, but the purpose is not to keep the mouth closed, but just to prevent the jaw from dropping too far. It should not be tight, just snug with the mask on and the mouth partly open as it would be normally. A strip cut from an old t-shirt, maybe.
Most of these FFM use an "air cushion" to fit, so the edge of the mask has to be allowed to inflate to seal. That's why too tight doesn't work. Often the masks can be seated by gently pulling them straight out from the face while being worn and under pressure to allow the seal to inflate and then letting them settle back to the face.
As JQ mentioned, the "mask fit" feature is helpful to test that the mask won't leak under higher therapy .
You should consult with your provider if you feel your pressure settings are disturbing you sleep.

_________________
Mask: AirFit™ P10 Nasal Pillow CPAP Mask with Headgear
Additional Comments: S9 Auto, P10 mask, P=7.0, EPR3, ResScan 5.3, SleepyHead V1.B2, Windows 10, ZEO, CMS50F, Infrared Video
Last edited by Jay Aitchsee on Sun Jan 18, 2015 6:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Macpage
Posts: 226
Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2014 10:48 am
Location: Kentucky, USA

Re: Traded One Problem For Another

Post by Macpage » Sun Jan 18, 2015 4:49 pm

Laurora wrote:Thanks all! Unfortunately for me, short of surgery, I'll never be able to completely breathe through my nose. I was born this way (baby!). It's frustrating but after 35 years, I've accepted it. Hence my hesitance to use just a nasal mask.

Also unfortunate is that I've lost my good attitude: I had one good night but since then can't replicate the good seal and wake up every 30-45 minutes with huge leaks. Tightening doesn't help, nor does loosening the mask. I've tried with liner and without. With bandage on the bridge of my nose, and then without (all in the same night). I'm so tired that I cried at breakfast this morning. I really need to get this figured out so I can feel human again.
Sorry to hear this, but it's common to have some bad spots early on. You'll be able to hang with it! You are getting some good advice!

Sorry if you may have already mentioned this (I'm sometimes sleep deprived as well), but I'll ask? Did your sleep study reveal if your sleep disordered breathing was worse in the supine position? One of the senior members here asked me that early on and explained this is often the case. I had a basic home test and no one told me any details in that regard. I was sleeping supine and having a hard time with the pressure required. She told me that I could learn to tolerate things as they were, or I could learn to sleep in a different position where there was a chance therapy would be easier. Some of us have reasons we have to be on our backs and/or can have effective therapy in that position. Others are already in other sleeping positions and still have a hard time. Sleep position is no magic bullet, but its worth asking about. You can get some good guidance if there's a possibility in this regard.

Hang in!

Best,

Mike

_________________
Mask: AirFit™ P10 Nasal Pillow CPAP Mask with Headgear
Humidifier: S9™ Series H5i™ Heated Humidifier with Climate Control
Additional Comments: APAP 8.6-11.4, EPR 3

User avatar
Laurora
Posts: 22
Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2015 7:02 pm

Re: Traded One Problem For Another

Post by Laurora » Mon Jan 19, 2015 3:18 pm

Yesterday I made sure to adjust my mask in my sleeping position (typically my left side). The fit felt excellent (machine agreed) and I fell asleep pretty easily. I wore it higher up on my face than I usually do and I think that helped. I meant to try either taping my mouth or a make-shift chin strap, but went to bed late and forgot. Woke up two separate times. The second time, after about 3 hours of sleep, the mask was leaking like crazy! I couldn't get it back to the good fit. Loosening or tightening didn't help, and neither did moving the placement. Seeing as it was about 2am, I was too exhausted/frustrated to figure it out, so I gave up for the night. I definitely want to try a new mask to see if that helps. Also worth it to try a chin strap. It's just the typical frustrations I think we all go through, so I know you all know how demoralizing it is to already be a tired person, and suddenly be even more tired due to fractured sleep.

_________________
Mask: Swift™ FX Nano For Her Nasal CPAP Mask with Headgear
Humidifier: S9™ Series H5i™ Heated Humidifier with Climate Control
Additional Comments: Also use tape to prevent mouth from dropping open during sleep.

HoseCrusher
Posts: 2744
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2010 6:42 pm

Re: Traded One Problem For Another

Post by HoseCrusher » Mon Jan 19, 2015 6:33 pm

Laurora, let's take a little journey to the edge of or maybe a little "outside the box..."

This goes hand in hand with what Jay was talking about.

First a question... When your hair falls across your face does it totally startle you and disrupt whatever you are doing? Or do you simply flick it away and not even notice that it was there?

This same reflex needs to be conditioned with your mask.

Take some time and put on the mask, turn on the machine, then lay down in the bed. Be sure you are wide awake.

Next totally thrash the bed. Roll to the right, roll to the left, curl up your pillow, then straighten your pillow back up. Curl your knees into your chest then straighten completely out.

After each movement take a little time to re-adjust your mask to eliminate any leaks. A few hours of doing this will educate you exactly what adjustments are needed for each "thrash." Now all you need to do is learn to do the adjustments so they become as automatic as flicking the hair out of your face.

Not only will you be able to keep your hair out of your face, but you will also end up being able to make leak preventing adjustments while you are sleeping.

I think of it as a dance. The mask is your partner and you are having the "time of your life" dancing "cheek to cheek"

_________________
Mask: Brevida™ Nasal Pillow CPAP Mask with Headgear
Additional Comments: Machine is an AirSense 10 AutoSet For Her with Heated Humidifier.
SpO2 96+% and holding...

User avatar
Jay Aitchsee
Posts: 2936
Joined: Sun May 22, 2011 12:47 pm
Location: Southwest Florida

Re: Traded One Problem For Another

Post by Jay Aitchsee » Tue Jan 20, 2015 11:02 am

Laurora wrote:Yesterday I made sure to adjust my mask in my sleeping position (typically my left side). The fit felt excellent (machine agreed) and I fell asleep pretty easily. I wore it higher up on my face than I usually do and I think that helped. I meant to try either taping my mouth or a make-shift chin strap, but went to bed late and forgot. Woke up two separate times. The second time, after about 3 hours of sleep, the mask was leaking like crazy! I couldn't get it back to the good fit. Loosening or tightening didn't help, and neither did moving the placement. Seeing as it was about 2am, I was too exhausted/frustrated to figure it out, so I gave up for the night. I definitely want to try a new mask to see if that helps. Also worth it to try a chin strap. It's just the typical frustrations I think we all go through, so I know you all know how demoralizing it is to already be a tired person, and suddenly be even more tired due to fractured sleep.
Yes, most of us know.
Try the things you mentioned above and the other tips in this thread. Another thing I don't think was mentioned was cleaning the cushions to prevent facial oils from affecting the seal. The Simplus, to me, seems to be particularly vulnerable. To prevent this, I wash the cushion in warm soapy water each morning leaving it to air dry and wash my face each evening before bed.

_________________
Mask: AirFit™ P10 Nasal Pillow CPAP Mask with Headgear
Additional Comments: S9 Auto, P10 mask, P=7.0, EPR3, ResScan 5.3, SleepyHead V1.B2, Windows 10, ZEO, CMS50F, Infrared Video

User avatar
Macpage
Posts: 226
Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2014 10:48 am
Location: Kentucky, USA

Re: Traded One Problem For Another

Post by Macpage » Tue Jan 20, 2015 12:06 pm

Laurora wrote:Yesterday I made sure to adjust my mask in my sleeping position (typically my left side).
Lots of good advice on the mask fitting. It just takes well....time. There are so many things you have to learn and discover. This is just one of them. There will be others. We know it's really hard when trying to have a life, and this is added to your already tired state. It's hard to imagine right now, but it can get better. After 6 months of therapy (some wasted time as I neglected my data for 8 weeks ), I'm doing a lot better than the beginning. I'm not that tired on most days and feel much healthier. You will get there as well.

I'll get away from mask fit/comfort for a moment to sleep position. You note you typically sleep left side. Many sleep studies will state your AHI while on your back and on your side (sometimes each side). If your AHI is much higher on your back and you do sleep there some, your therapy pressure is probably set to handle this worst case scenario. Now, if you have nothing else that prevents you from sleeping in any position and your treatment needs can be verified to be lower on your side, you "may" be able to use less therapy pressure. This is generally more comfortable and certainly makes the mask fit issues you are having a little easier to address.

It's not always easy to sleep on your side all night. Some of us have trouble not moving in our sleep, but others have been able to stay out of some positions. Only you can decide if you want to consider sleep position. If you do, you can look at your study and see what it states. In any case, we would use use sleepyhead to investigate your required pressure in different sleeping positions. Of course, if you had the home test and stayed on your side the whole time, you already have an idea of your needs. This is just one of the many ways data examination is crucial to effective treatment, and why almost all here recommends it so strongly! Good luck!

Best,

Mike

_________________
Mask: AirFit™ P10 Nasal Pillow CPAP Mask with Headgear
Humidifier: S9™ Series H5i™ Heated Humidifier with Climate Control
Additional Comments: APAP 8.6-11.4, EPR 3