Tragic Death a Result of Sleep Apnea

[MandoJohnny]

I see. The guy who killed poor Maggie hadn't slept in 30 hours, largely because he had been smoking crack. He got points on his license and a $200 fine. I know what the bleeding hearts will add, "Oh, but he'll have to live with that the rest of his life." Well, at least he gets to live.

But if your doctor, who you are supposed to have a confidential relationship with, turns you in for just having apnea, you don't even get a trial and you can lose your license, for good. Great...

[RedThunder94]

Bottom line: Pay your sleep doc's bills on time or he may "drop a dime" on ya!

yeah he prolly would just about shoot himself in the foot doing that to me, lol, if i can't drive i can't work.

[mousetater]

From today's follow-up article in Newsday:

During a news conference yesterday, Suffolk Police said the Department of Motor Vehicles was reviewing the fatal accident. They said Taddonio's license could be revoked if it is found that he is a danger to others. Police said they had no plans to file criminal charges.
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In New York state, those with sleep apnea are not required to report their condition to the Department of Motor Vehicles. But DMV spokeswoman Tracey McNerney said the agency can re-examine drivers who cause accidents that appear to be related to a medical condition.

This seems like a reasonable approach for the DMV. They don't assume that someone with a particular condition, including but not limited to sleep apnea, is a danger to themselves and others, but handle cases on an individual basis once they have been involved in an accident. It is a shame that even one accident could potentially cause as much damage as this one - one death and possible permanent brain damage to another. But it would also be wrong to prevent everyone with any one of multiple conditions from driving just because they have the condition, whether or not it is under control. And, even that would not prevent accidents from people who do not have a medical condition, but are sleepy just because they haven't had enough sleep that day.

[NightHawkeye]

FWIW, to add some perspective here . . . I don't see how the government could monitor everyone with a possible medical condition, anyway, short of people voluntarily turning themselves in. Right now in this country we've got tens of millions of illegal aliens. The government doesn't even know where they are, much less what to do about them.

Regards,
Bill

[-SWS]

Right now in this country we've got tens of millions of illegal aliens. The government doesn't even know where they are, much less what to do about them.

...Let alone what their apnea conditions happen to be. .

[OSAGuy]

My deepest sympathy for the families involved. However, to say that one should lose the privelege of driving because we have been diagnosed with sleep apnea is out of line. As has been said previously, it does become personal responsibility. I really think what we have here is someone attempting to use their disease as an excuse for what happened. If one is diagnosed with OSA and choses not to utilize the help that is so readily available they should be held accountible. However, to us a broad brush and say everyone with OSA should lose their license is crazy. Don't ask that all of be penalized for the actions of a minority. As we all are painfully aware, there are many with OSA that are undiagnosed. I just have a real problem with someone getting on a soapbox saying all with OSA should lose their license. We need to recognize that we have a disease that can be treated and take the responsibiity for seeing to it that we get the best treatmnent we can afford.

[Jetmech]

My My how we are so quick to judge someone.Have any of you ever been on a trip before and suddenly gotten sleepy behind the wheel without realizing it.Accidents do happen even to the best of drivers!!You only have to take your eyes off of the road for a second. I too suffer from sleep apnea and am on a cpap and have used it every night since august of last year.I find I can no longer sleep without using it.I still don't have 100% of the energy i once had and get really sleepy earlier at night around 8;30pm.
I do know before cpap therapy I was suffering from instances of microsleep while driving without even knowing it(this is when you close your eye for 1 to 2 seconds at a time).I still tire easily on long road trips and thank God know when to pull over!!So give this poor soul a little consideration for after all he is human.I cant even begin to comprehend what these two families are going through.I don't believe this man is a criminal!!!

[MandoJohnny]

Well your sympathy is obviously more for the man who was driving, who should have been in charge of his vehicle and will get off with a slap on the wrist. My sympathy is more with the girl who was killed, her sister who had to watch it and the family who will have to grieve her. I think in the grand scheme of the things, he doesn't deserve much sympathy, but they do.

By the way, if I were face to face with anyone involved, including the driver, I could look them in the eye and make my argument. Tell me you could look the dead girl's family in the eyes and make yours.

[BetterBreathinBob]

Few years back I drove a school bus for some extra money. I only did the afternoon route and would report to work arounf 2:30. The staff lounge would always have a few overweight drivers napping in their chairs and actually obstructing as they sat upright.

Since I also worked as a sleep tech I mentioned this to the boss who told me that they have to be careful about health issuses because of the unions.

Very scary having sleepy drivers driving our kids.

[Guest]

Everyone's suspicions were correct. The driver who fell asleep was not using his cpap machine because it was "uncomfortable".

July 24, 2006 -- The driver of a runaway Hummer that fatally mowed down a 15-year-old girl yesterday will not face charges - because he has a sleep disorder that apparently caused him to doze off at the wheel, Long Island cops said.
Gerald Taddonio, 55, admitted at the crash scene in Huntington that he has a device recommended to counter the fatigue of sleep apnea - but doesn't wear it because it's uncomfortable, said Detective Sgt. Bruce Markgaf.

http://www.nypost.com/news/regionalnews ... _algar.htm

This guy is still probably going to jail, but on an unrelated charge.

New York City Police arrested Gerald Taddonio, 55, last year and accused him of being the front man in a loan-sharking scheme that pulled in roughly $1 million. He pleaded guilty last month to fourth-degree conspiracy charges and is scheduled to be sentenced on Sept. 8, according to the Manhattan District Attorney's office.

His wife, Susan, pled guilty in May to filing a false tax return. She is expected to be sentenced to that misdemeanor charge on the same day.

http://mobile.newsday.com/news.jsp?key=12738

[brasshopper]

...I noted that my wife, Ferk, was occasionally snoring and doing the choking and not breathing thing - and then resuming normal breathing.

I asked her to talk it over with her doctor - of course, no one told her that she probably had sleep apnea (as I did - and have been compliantly using my CPAP for 20 years) and that there were risks with sleep apnea - they looked at it as part of her high blood pressure.

She was scheduled for a PSG - and they were several hours late starting her (their mistake) and noted that they were only going to have time to run the complete test if she fell asleep within 10 minutes after they wired her, and did she think she was going to be able to do that?

She walked out - calling the technician an idiot for putting her under pressure like that and telling him that she probably could have fallen asleep quickly if he had not told her that it was essential that she fall asleep quickly.

She was not rescheduled. No one considered it real important. Several months later we moved and a few weeks after we moved she went back to where we used to live to visit friends for two days.

Her blood pressure came down based on other treatments (a stent in ker kidney blood supply) and it did not seem important to her doctors anymore to test her for sleep apnea - and she had not looked forward to a CPAP.

Last August 31, she was driving home - she was about 20 miles away from the house.

She apparrently fell asleep at the wheel, and she was not a good driver - she jammed on the brakes as she awoke and was driving off the road. She thus had no chance to turn away from the canal, and when the right front wheel dropped in the vehicle turned over. When the vehicle turned over, and she was knocked out, the seat belts, which she wore 100% of the time, held her head under the water (we had just had a hurricane tail with a lot of rain) and this killed her - she drowned in a couple feet of water. No guarantee what would have happened without them, but with the belts she had no chance of living - without them she would probably have floated out of the water.

So, now I know enough to put this all together. A doctor who didn't educate her to the risks. A technician who was not good enough to get the patient scheduled before her wired up in time - and who was probably purpously stupid so that she was likely to walk out - he was paid by the hour and now could do half the work. Seat belts that are required by law even when you have an alternative restraint - air bags - and someone who believed that she was safer with the belts and so who wore them. A hurricane that filled a normally empty canal with water - so that it did not have a guard rail.

And, most likely, undiagnosed sleep apnea.

But without this resource - or newspaper articles like that one that we are discussing, well, we had no idea that untreated apnea - without a history of falling asleep at the wheel, made it more likely that she would fall asleep at the wheel. It was just 10 PM when they pulled her car out of the canal and got her body out. She had woken up at her normal time and she normally did not fall asleep as early as 10 PM.

And then - well, no one knows to guess that this time, the accident would be of the sort that she was more likely to die in because she wore the seat belt rather than less. But she wore it and it held her head under water.

1 in 50 of those who are born will eventually die in a car accident in the US.

This is a risk that we all accept - as I read in an article, as a population, we think that nuclear power is unsale and peanut butter is safe - and in actual fact we are way more likely to die from peanut butter than nuclear power - if all the deaths in the world from nuclear power were in the US population as (I assume) we are, again, as I understand it, we would still be more likely to die from peanuts than nukes.

And we are WAY more likely to die from car accidents. But we don't think about it until and unless it happens to some one close to us. And, in a major way, we all accept the risk because otherwise we would be bored.

I miss my wife. But I encouraged her to reschedule the test. I encouraged her not to go on this useless trip. It was her decision - and her risk to take. I don't feel like she treated me fairly - I loved her and I wanted to live the rest of my life with her and she gave up her life cheaply.

But it was her life to risk and to lose. With knowledge of how important Sleep Apnea was to driving safety, she might have made a different decision about rescheduling the test or about sticking with it that night - but we never got that information.

We simply did not know how much sleep apnea affected driving.

She had not fallen asleep at the wheel before - but it only takes once. We had discussed how important it was not to jam on your brakes when you were off the road - and I looked at her wheel tracks - they clearly showed that she had jammed the brakes on and thus died. Despite mental rehearsal, she did not do the right thing in the emergency. "They" could teach that in drivers ed - and "they" could put a guardrail in front of canals that are only full when there unseasonably heavy rains.

Any of 5-6 things might have kept her alive - 4 wheel antilocks rather than 2 wheel, for example. But she never took mental rehearsal seriously - she may not have had warning to take a walk - she had a half full open coke - so she had stopped and tried to wake up - she could have called me on her cell to keep going but she did not do that either.

Just to present the other side of the coin - this alleged gangster we are talking about has been toasted and roasted - and I guess I feel more sorry for his wife.

The reason they require you to self report is not because they expect you to tattle on yourself - it is to make you liable for not doing so after the fact - so that they can get your liability policy at its limits. Or that is my guess.

Yes, this disease kills.

[mousetater]

Brasshopper,

I am so sorry for your loss. I lost my husband to cancer two years ago (not sleep apnea related), but, I, too, go through a lot of "if only" scenarios. I hope the pain fades for you in time.

mousetater

[DSM-Guest]

Brasshopper,

That is one sad and tragic situation. I for one appreciate that you went through the pain of reliving it in your writing as a way of getting an important message home to people who read this forum.

Thanks for putting that here & my kindest regards & sympathy to you for the pain of that loss and the frustrating set of circumstances that led to it.

DSM

[birdshell]

Brasshopper,

You have been through some kind of ordeal. I am so sorry for the loss of your wife and for the circumstances. Your account touched me, and I find myself tearing up a bit as I write this.

It WAS very kind of you to share your story so well. It is possible to second guess and what-if almost any of life's tragedies, isn't it? I also read the words of a very sensible, loving and understanding husband.

It isn't fair for bad things to happen, but the rest of us can only go on as best we can. All of the possibilities to prevent the tragedy are not statistically probable--but when it is someone important to you, those low statistics are 100%.

Thank you for your rational contribution. I, for one, will be thinking of you and sneaking in a little prayer, too.

[Yoga]

Our condolences also, Brasshopper.

Our DME always asks, "When will you be by to pick up your equipment." I always say, "It's okay to deliver it."

I think DME's should deliver rather than having possibly sleep deprived people drive while sleepy. They of all people should know how apnea can affect people.