New device for Sleep Apnea

[Snoredog]

That seems WAY too pricey for a dental device!

I just picked up my TAP Titanium for $1700 "installed" and that was going through a certified sleep dentist. (and darn happy with it with two nights so far)

The hot thing being checked out over at the only "dental device" sub heading in a forum that I am aware of, is the Somnoguard AP for people that are budget limited or just want to "experiment" with a reasonably priced dental device to see if it might work for them. Its only $169 but does not come with a dentist....so you are on your own for tracking issues.
http://nosnorezone.com/order.html
But for a tenth of the price of a dentist installed TAP it pretty much works on the same principal and we have at least two good reports, and a couple of more "lab rats" with some known history on the forum are going to be test driving the Somnoguard AP soon to confirm the positive reports.

sure beats $5K for a device from a non-certified dentist that is dabbling in apnea treatment.

Thanks Snork! gotta get me one of those "Nozovents", shoot I should have bought stock in BreathRight strips long ago, I use one of those under my mask every night. Every costco trip I grab a couple boxes, but they just increased the price the last trip.

I wouldn't beat the dentist up too bad, sure his marketing skills aren't the greatest but I think the answer to coming up with a solution to OSA is with addressing the tongue issue. I don't think that device shown in the video is the actual device that retains the tongue. Since my kid is a Dentist and I've spent a few bucks getting her towards that goal, I can assure you they have to go through nearly the same training and state board exams as a MD, then they have to have the dental skills and knowledge to go along with it.

Where they attended Dental school has a lot to do with it. There are Dental schools that teach you how to just pass the State board exams, and there are schools that teach you to become a good Dentist where you pass the board exams with ease.

[snork1]

[quote="Snoredog]......

I wouldn't beat the dentist up too bad, sure his marketing skills aren't the greatest but I think the answer to coming up with a solution to OSA is with addressing the tongue issue. I don't think that device shown in the video is the actual device that retains the tongue. Since my kid is a Dentist and I've spent a few bucks getting her towards that goal, I can assure you they have to go through nearly the same training and state board exams as a MD, then they have to have the dental skills and knowledge to go along with it.

Where they attended Dental school has a lot to do with it. There are Dental schools that teach you how to just pass the State board exams, and there are schools that teach you to become a good Dentist where you pass the board exams with ease.

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CPAPopedia Keywords Contained In This Post (Click For Definition): video[/quote]

A dentist can actually get certified for dealing with sleep apnea.
http://www.dentalsleepmed.org/FindaDentist.aspx

I don't question dentists in general mucking around in this area, just those that don't want to take the effort to get certified but claim to be "experts". I actually have TWO dentists at the moment and have a LOT of respect for them, my "regular" dentist isn't certified for apnea and won't touch the field of dental apnea devices, the other dentist I go to IS certified AND is a TMJ expert, and I use him for my apnea treatment "experiment".

[MandoJohnny]

they have to go through nearly the same training and state board exams as a MD

I wasn't putting down dentists. They are great and as you say, highly trained. They actually have more training in anesthesiology and pain management than regular MDs. In the Navy, the dentists are actually cross trained as anesthesiologists. So if you get an operation on the ship, it may be a dentist who is "passing the gas" to keep you knocked out.

My point, though, is that this dentist on the website has no sleep medicine credentials. I would be saying the same thing about an MD who had no sleep training. I had my first PSG messed up and misdiagnosed by an experienced internist MD who is otherwise a good doctor. I have that on the authority of my current sleep doc, who has credentials out the wazoo. Also, if a dentist, or anyone else, invented a device that worked, don't you think their first step would be to get some validation from the professional sleep medicine community? That's the way it's supposed to be done.

[Guest]

There may be some merit, but at $5-6 K?

Last month's price was much more attractive at only $495. But that was before Resmed bought them.

[birdshell]

ROTFL!

[birdshell]

(snip)
My point, though, is that this dentist on the website has no sleep medicine credentials. I would be saying the same thing about an MD who had no sleep training. I had my first PSG messed up and misdiagnosed by an experienced internist MD who is otherwise a good doctor. I have that on the authority of my current sleep doc, who has credentials out the wazoo. Also, if a dentist, or anyone else, invented a device that worked, don't you think their first step would be to get some validation from the professional sleep medicine community? That's the way it's supposed to be done.

RE: The red part above--does it not prove even more so, that this DDS is not aware of the sleep medicine community and the possibilities out there? If he were, would he not have done some polling or posting or teamed up with a sleep specialist, at least?

[Guest]

$5000 to 6000??? I presume that includes my round trip flight to California and back, hotel and meals, a trip to Yosemity and an add on trip to Hawaii.
Now that sounds like a deal...and a dental device too. WOW!

[Guest 3]

$5000 to 6000??? I presume that includes my round trip flight to California and back, hotel and meals, a trip to Yosemity and an add on trip to Hawaii.
Now that sounds like a deal...and a dental device too. WOW!

Why yes it does!

Unfortunately you only get the dental device and the dentist selling the tongue restraint gets all those other things you mentioned.

[stillawake]

I work fairly close to the guy's Tarzana office. I called a while ago and left a message on an answering machine asking if there is room in this evening's sales pitch. I mean, "workshop." I'm skeptical, but curious. Especially about how to get an insurance company to pay for something like this. If I get to hear the sales pitch, I'll report back with my impressions.

[snork1]

I work fairly close to the guy's Tarzana office. I called a while ago and left a message on an answering machine asking if there is room in this evening's sales pitch. I mean, "workshop." I'm skeptical, but curious. Especially about how to get an insurance company to pay for something like this. If I get to hear the sales pitch, I'll report back with my impressions.

Awesome! Our very own mole!!!

Please report back if you get in!

[birdshell]

I work fairly close to the guy's Tarzana office. (snip) If I get to hear the sales pitch, I'll report back with my impressions.

Don't worry too much if you cannot get into tonight's pitch. I'm guessing that there will be QUITE a few others coming up.

Y'know, more folks should realize that the sun never sets on the CPAP Talk network.

Cannot wait to hear a first-tongue report! (So to speak.) There may be merit to this concept.

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CPAPopedia Keywords Contained In This Post (Click For Definition): CPAP

[brasshopper]

The typical dental device works by repositioning the lower jaw. That sort of device can cause all sorts of problems if used for more than six months - it can cause permanent changes in the jaw joint, with the headaches and all that, and bite changes and many other things.

I'm actually more interested in this sort of device.

As pointed out by others, it sure looks a lot like one of those boil-and-bite devices (which have their own problems) that has a simple bridge fitted across the back that holds the tongue forward.

As such, if it works, well, I'm more interested in it than something that changes my bite.

[snork1]

I do find it odd that the description keeps emphasizing mouth breathing.
I have spent the last couple of years learning to breath through my nose, and making it so I could breath through my nose.
I am not sold on mouth breathing being the ideal goal.
Of course for those that can ONLY mouth breath, this may be a good answer.
I also wonder, as someone has mentioned, how that strap in the back interacts with those of us that have an overdeveloped gag reflex.

Bottom line though, is even if it works, five grand is a ridiculous price.

I was pricing out dental devices and wouldn't even consider the dentists that were charging a "mere" 3 thousand bucks.

I wonder if he is testing the waters with that price or if he is serious with that?

[birdshell]

I just happened to see a show on unusal ER cases. One girl swallowed a large dinner fork, and the docs were mystified.

It turned out that she was bulemic, and had to start using the silverware to help her to vomit. She had suppressed the gag reflex by vomiting so frequently. She wasn't exactly sure how she had swallowed the fork, but probably gasped it down somehow.

Apparently, one can overcome the gag reflex.

I know that when I was taking lifesaving, we were required to use a snorkel. My father used to scuba dive, so I used one of his. Maybe it was large for me, but at first every time I inserted it into my mouth it made me almost gag. If I fought the feeling for a few moments, it would go away.

After a few days of use, I could put the mouthpiece in without feeling that gaggy urge. If I did not use it for, say, a week I had to start all over. Mind you, the snorkel mouthpiece was never very much past my teeth. One kind of bites down a bit to keep the snorkel secure.

Any experts on the possibility of supressing the gag reflex for this device?

[Bookbear]

calling Secret Agent Stillawake....calling agent Stillawake.......

I SWEAR we won't reveal your name to Karl Rove OR Scooter Libby

Do let us know what you find out!