Fragmented sleep---awakenings...HELP, please

[Taz]

Pugsy,

I have a very good friend that is a nurse and I've just had a long conversation with her. She seems to think I'm doing very well on CPAP and my problems are the result of another issue, as you have stated. I saw my doctor in June, one month after beginning CPAP. I was doing very well except for ongoing blood pressure issues. He changed my meds, again...for like the 5th time in a 4 month period. Her observation is that I have slowly gone down hill since then. She feels I am depressed and more fatigued than ever before plus hair loss, disruptive sleep patterns and continued swelling in feet & lower legs. All possible side effects of certain blood pressure meds.

I'm currently taking 5mg Bystolic in the morning and 0.1mg Clonidine in the afternoon and at bedtime. I've now reviewed the side effects of these meds and I'm currently experiencing many. The doctor ordered the sleep study after failed attempts to control my blood pressure. I guess I was expecting CPAP therapy to fix all my issues and unfortunately, I must still deal with the original issue....hypertension. I don't know what I'm going to do...I've failed with so many different blood pressure meds.... just dread trying any others. These two meds were actually controlling my blood pressure so I guess I was trying to ignore the side effects.

I have a scheduled doctors appt on Sept 15th....I'm not looking forward to this.

Taz

Taz

[Wulfman...]

Totally agree with Pugsy's post.
To paraphrase a line in a John Denver song......."Some nights are diamonds.......some nights are stones......".

It's all about averages.......and baby steps.


Den

.

[Pugsy]

For some lucky people cpap therapy does fix their blood pressure issues but it's just like everything else that comes with this therapy..there's that really big YMMV sticker.

We read about other people who are lucky and kinda assume that we will have the same great results but life just doesn't work that way....unfortunately.

My sister is on BP meds...no OSA though....she was feeling like crap with typical OSA symptoms so we did a screening but she didn't really have any OSA events to speak of. She got to reading up on her BP meds and yep...side effects were also OSA typical symptoms in terms of how she slept and felt during the day. She got her doctor to change meds and she noticed a difference immediately. She got lucky in that a simple change in meds helped the unwanted symptoms AND took care of the blood pressure issues.

Often in life it isn't just any one thing that causes the problems. It's a combination of a lot of little things. People have crappy sleep without taking any meds and without having OSA to complicate things.

All we can do is keep looking under those rocks for something that if we can fix it...will help us feel better. Meds are suspect because of potential side effects. Damned if we do and damned if we don't though.

I often wished it were so simple as something related to OSA and getting a nice low AHI fixed everything. Things would be a lot simpler for sure.
But it's like me and my fragile sleep. Mine is from arthritis pain and old injuries causing pain. My OSA therapy is very well controlled but I don't always get the good quality sleep I need because of fragmented sleep due to pain. On paper I look like I should be sleeping great and feeling great but in reality I have issues with things that the machine can't fix. It's a war I realize I won't ever totally win but sometimes I do manage to win some battles and I have to accept that fact and since I must use the cpap machine anyway...it is what it is and I make the best of it when I don't sleep as well as I wish....it's still a lot better than if I didn't use the cpap machine which would really compound the problem.
I found out just how bad I could feel last year when I went on a little trip and realized I had forgot to pack the long hose and had to sleep one night without the machine. So while I still may not be lucky enough to have that miracle that some people experience...I got a real reminder on just how bad I could feel.

[49er]

Pugsy,

I have a very good friend that is a nurse and I've just had a long conversation with her. She seems to think I'm doing very well on CPAP and my problems are the result of another issue, as you have stated. I saw my doctor in June, one month after beginning CPAP. I was doing very well except for ongoing blood pressure issues. He changed my meds, again...for like the 5th time in a 4 month period. Her observation is that I have slowly gone down hill since then. She feels I am depressed and more fatigued than ever before plus hair loss, disruptive sleep patterns and continued swelling in feet & lower legs. All possible side effects of certain blood pressure meds.

I'm currently taking 5mg Bystolic in the morning and 0.1mg Clonidine in the afternoon and at bedtime. I've now reviewed the side effects of these meds and I'm currently experiencing many. The doctor ordered the sleep study after failed attempts to control my blood pressure. I guess I was expecting CPAP therapy to fix all my issues and unfortunately, I must still deal with the original issue....hypertension. I don't know what I'm going to do...I've failed with so many different blood pressure meds.... just dread trying any others. These two meds were actually controlling my blood pressure so I guess I was trying to ignore the side effects.

I have a scheduled doctors appt on Sept 15th....I'm not looking forward to this.

Taz

Taz

Hi Taz,

I know this is going to sound like a dumb question but are you sure you have high blood pressure? The reason I am asking is I kept testing high at PCP's office consistently only to discover through a 24 hour blood pressure monitor test that I had fortunately asked for that I was suffering from "white coat" hypertension.

If you are certain that you have it, you might want to take a look at the book, The magnesium solution for high blood pressure by Jay Cohen, MD. Even though fortunately, I turned out not to have high pressure, I found his book very interesting and learned more about magnesium than I had from any alternative doctors and how it can help with blood pressure. Even if you can't get off meds, perhaps taking it could enable you to reduce the amount you take and thus decrease the side effects.

The other possibility is if you feel you need to stay on meds is to seek a 2nd opinion from a cardiologist. When I thought I had high blood pressure, I was definitely going to consult with one for a 2nd opinion. Just a thought.

Hang in there.

49er

[4betterO2]

Hi Taz,
I know this is going to sound like a dumb question but are you sure you have high blood pressure? The reason I am asking is I kept testing high at PCP's office consistently only to discover through a 24 hour blood pressure monitor test that I had fortunately asked for that I was suffering from "white coat" hypertension.
49er

+1! I had a BP of nearly 240 when seeing a particular doctor, and he immediately wanted to put me on meds but I refused, knowing that normally my BP is 120. Surely enough, several subsequent tests at Walmart and by my PCP confirmed to me that I'm normally normal, he he.

The new machines at Walmart try real hard to get you to reveal a lot of info, but if you pay attention you can get thru to the test without giving them any, except the birth date but since you are not giving your name, you are not lying if you use a different DOB, lol.

Taz my 2 cents on straight CPAP is that it is against natural physiology, to have to exhale air against incoming pressure, so I would advise to keep the EPAP pressure at the minimum needed to keep your OSA in check, which for most people, is lower than the IPAP. Using straight CPAP is in my view an increased risk factor for developing PAP-induced CSA: unneeded if you can avoid it...

You are lucky to have an average AHI of less than 2, many people cannot get that good a result!
Since AHI includes leak info, I would not worry too much about getting it down to 0.
Legally I believe the therapy is deemed good if AHI is <5, since 5 is the threshold for a positive diagnosis of OSA/CSA.

[4betterO2]

YMMV

sorry but what does YMMV stand for?

[Pugsy]

sorry but what does YMMV stand for?

Your
Mileage
May
Vary

meaning your results may not be the same as my results or anyone else's results.

[Taz]

For some lucky people cpap therapy does fix their blood pressure issues but it's just like everything else that comes with this therapy..there's that really big YMMV sticker.

We read about other people who are lucky and kinda assume that we will have the same great results but life just doesn't work that way....unfortunately.

My sister is on BP meds...no OSA though....she was feeling like crap with typical OSA symptoms so we did a screening but she didn't really have any OSA events to speak of. She got to reading up on her BP meds and yep...side effects were also OSA typical symptoms in terms of how she slept and felt during the day. She got her doctor to change meds and she noticed a difference immediately. She got lucky in that a simple change in meds helped the unwanted symptoms AND took care of the blood pressure issues.

Often in life it isn't just any one thing that causes the problems. It's a combination of a lot of little things. People have crappy sleep without taking any meds and without having OSA to complicate things.

All we can do is keep looking under those rocks for something that if we can fix it...will help us feel better. Meds are suspect because of potential side effects. Damned if we do and damned if we don't though.

I often wished it were so simple as something related to OSA and getting a nice low AHI fixed everything. Things would be a lot simpler for sure.
But it's like me and my fragile sleep. Mine is from arthritis pain and old injuries causing pain. My OSA therapy is very well controlled but I don't always get the good quality sleep I need because of fragmented sleep due to pain. On paper I look like I should be sleeping great and feeling great but in reality I have issues with things that the machine can't fix. It's a war I realize I won't ever totally win but sometimes I do manage to win some battles and I have to accept that fact and since I must use the cpap machine anyway...it is what it is and I make the best of it when I don't sleep as well as I wish....it's still a lot better than if I didn't use the cpap machine which would really compound the problem.
I found out just how bad I could feel last year when I went on a little trip and realized I had forgot to pack the long hose and had to sleep one night without the machine. So while I still may not be lucky enough to have that miracle that some people experience...I got a real reminder on just how bad I could feel.

Pugsy,

Thank you for your comments, I really appreciate your input. I'm just feeling very discouraged, today and not looking forward to trying different HTN meds. I've been through that several times and know some of those meds can really "knock you on your butt". I thought I was past all of that after starting CPAP. I'll pull myself together and hopefully, tomorrow will be a better day.

Taz

[Taz]

Pugsy,

I have a very good friend that is a nurse and I've just had a long conversation with her. She seems to think I'm doing very well on CPAP and my problems are the result of another issue, as you have stated. I saw my doctor in June, one month after beginning CPAP. I was doing very well except for ongoing blood pressure issues. He changed my meds, again...for like the 5th time in a 4 month period. Her observation is that I have slowly gone down hill since then. She feels I am depressed and more fatigued than ever before plus hair loss, disruptive sleep patterns and continued swelling in feet & lower legs. All possible side effects of certain blood pressure meds.

I'm currently taking 5mg Bystolic in the morning and 0.1mg Clonidine in the afternoon and at bedtime. I've now reviewed the side effects of these meds and I'm currently experiencing many. The doctor ordered the sleep study after failed attempts to control my blood pressure. I guess I was expecting CPAP therapy to fix all my issues and unfortunately, I must still deal with the original issue....hypertension. I don't know what I'm going to do...I've failed with so many different blood pressure meds.... just dread trying any others. These two meds were actually controlling my blood pressure so I guess I was trying to ignore the side effects.

I have a scheduled doctors appt on Sept 15th....I'm not looking forward to this.

Taz

Taz

Hi Taz,

I know this is going to sound like a dumb question but are you sure you have high blood pressure? The reason I am asking is I kept testing high at PCP's office consistently only to discover through a 24 hour blood pressure monitor test that I had fortunately asked for that I was suffering from "white coat" hypertension.

If you are certain that you have it, you might want to take a look at the book, The magnesium solution for high blood pressure by Jay Cohen, MD. Even though fortunately, I turned out not to have high pressure, I found his book very interesting and learned more about magnesium than I had from any alternative doctors and how it can help with blood pressure. Even if you can't get off meds, perhaps taking it could enable you to reduce the amount you take and thus decrease the side effects.

The other possibility is if you feel you need to stay on meds is to seek a 2nd opinion from a cardiologist. When I thought I had high blood pressure, I was definitely going to consult with one for a 2nd opinion. Just a thought.

Hang in there.

49er

49er,

Unfortunately, I have a 15yr hx of hypertension plus a lengthy family hx. The past 7yrs has been a constant battle of trying to control it with meds. In Feb 2014, a new PCP recognized symptoms of sleep apnea and ordered a sleep study. He warned me then that it may take 6 months or longer on CPAP before I would see an improvement in my blood pressure. I will look into the book on magnesium, I'm willing to try anything.

Taz

[49er]

49er,

Unfortunately, I have a 15yr hx of hypertension plus a lengthy family hx. The past 7yrs has been a constant battle of trying to control it with meds. In Feb 2014, a new PCP recognized symptoms of sleep apnea and ordered a sleep study. He warned me then that it may take 6 months or longer on CPAP before I would see an improvement in my blood pressure. I will look into the book on magnesium, I'm willing to try anything.

Taz

Hi Taz,

As an FYI, a relative was able to reduce his BP meds from 3 to 1 by adapting the low salt Pritikin diet. Something else for you to consider?

Anyway, I feel very fortunate that I avoided joining your club. With my extreme sensitivity to meds, there is no doubt I would have had similar experiences to yours.

Best of luck.

49er

[Taz]

If you are certain that you have it, you might want to take a look at the book, The magnesium solution for high blood pressure by Jay Cohen, MD. Even though fortunately, I turned out not to have high pressure, I found his book very interesting and learned more about magnesium than I had from any alternative doctors and how it can help with blood pressure. Even if you can't get off meds, perhaps taking it could enable you to reduce the amount you take and thus decrease the side effects.

49er,

Yesterday, I downloaded the Magnesium Solution book by Jay Cohen, MD, to my Kindle. I've just finished reading the entire book, it was an easy read and very informative. I've ordered the supplements he recommended. I'm really eager to give this a try. I realize it's not a quick fix because of my extensive history but from what I'm understanding, it could improve my well being and possibly reduce the amount of meds I'm now currently taking. To me....any improvement is a plus. I'll discuss this with my doctor and I'm certain he will have nothing negative to say. He appears to be rather progressive thinking and I'm sure he will just encourage me to continue to monitor my blood pressure, which I do on a daily basis, anyway. Thanks so much for recommending this book.

Taz

[49er]

If you are certain that you have it, you might want to take a look at the book, The magnesium solution for high blood pressure by Jay Cohen, MD. Even though fortunately, I turned out not to have high pressure, I found his book very interesting and learned more about magnesium than I had from any alternative doctors and how it can help with blood pressure. Even if you can't get off meds, perhaps taking it could enable you to reduce the amount you take and thus decrease the side effects.

49er,

Yesterday, I downloaded the Magnesium Solution book by Jay Cohen, MD, to my Kindle. I've just finished reading the entire book, it was an easy read and very informative. I've ordered the supplements he recommended. I'm really eager to give this a try. I realize it's not a quick fix because of my extensive history but from what I'm understanding, it could improve my well being and possibly reduce the amount of meds I'm now currently taking. To me....any improvement is a plus. I'll discuss this with my doctor and I'm certain he will have nothing negative to say. He appears to be rather progressive thinking and I'm sure he will just encourage me to continue to monitor my blood pressure, which I do on a daily basis, anyway. Thanks so much for recommending this book.

Taz

So glad to hear this Taz and I am so happy to hear you have a doctor who will work with you on this. Best of luck and keep us posted as to what happens.

49er