Results of Pressure Changes

General Discussion on any topic relating to CPAP and/or Sleep Apnea.
User avatar
The Latinist
Posts: 465
Joined: Sat Apr 19, 2014 10:00 pm

Results of Pressure Changes

Post by The Latinist » Wed Aug 06, 2014 12:44 pm

So, just about two weeks ago I had my two-month follow-up. At that time, my doctor and I agreed on a change to my prescription. The goal was to reduce centrals and, as you can see, it has had modest success at that. But it has also decreased obstructive apneas and hypopneas, and has decreased my peak AHI from 28 to around 14. All in all, a good change.

I'm curious, however, about he decrease in obstructives with only a change in maximum pressure. Does this suggest that the machine may have been misidentifying centrals as obstructives and chasing them with pressure increases? If this trend keeps up, might it be advisable to try a further decrease to the maximum? Or maybe even try straight CPAP at 14 cm H20 (an alternative my doctor mentioned at our last appointment)?

I'm not going to rush into any further changes, but any suggestions or insight anyone wants to share would be appreciated.

20 Jun 2014 - 23 July 2014: 12-16 cm H20, EPR 1 cm H20
Image

24 Jul 2014 - 5 Aug 2014: 12-15 cm H20, EPR 1 cm H20
Image

_________________
Mask: AirFit™ P10 Nasal Pillow CPAP Mask with Headgear
Humidifier: S9™ Series H5i™ Heated Humidifier with Climate Control
Additional Comments: APAP 12-16 cmH2O, EPR 1. Untreated AHI: 96; treated AHI 2.3.

User avatar
Todzo
Posts: 2014
Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2012 8:51 pm
Location: Washington State U.S.A.

Re: Results of Pressure Changes

Post by Todzo » Wed Aug 06, 2014 3:20 pm

The Latinist wrote:I'm curious, however, about [t]he decrease in obstructives with only a change in maximum pressure. Does this suggest that the machine may have been misidentifying centrals as obstructives and chasing them with pressure increases?
Events of any kind raise the level of the stress hormones. Stress hormones up – inflammation up – the tendency to obstruct up. So if you reduce the arousals (even non-seen micro-arousals) you reduce the tendency to inflame and obstruct.

As well if you have increased breathing to where the “apneic threshold” is breached by the blood carbon dioxide levels going too low you are also in the realm where the blood carbon dioxide levels are so low that blood circulation and metabolism are frustrated. I take note that I find that the very first indication that I am breathing too much is that my nose stuffs up. Since I have learned to breath in a manner which holds my blood carbon dioxide levels more optimum I have enjoyed “smelling the flowers” all spring and summer and have no desire or motivation to seek out “allergy meds”.

Breathing at good levels my feet are warm, the veins on the back of my hand not swollen, my nose is moist, warm, and clear. Breath too much the feet grow cold, the viens on the back of my hand become plumped, and my nose grows stuffy (but also note that breathing too little will plump the veins). So if you are breathing enough air to cause “clear airway apneas” I can think that your nose and airway would become more stuffy and likely tend you toward more obstructive apnea. At least that is consistent with my experience.
The Latinist wrote: If this trend keeps up, might it be advisable to try a further decrease to the maximum? Or maybe even try straight CPAP at 14 cm H20 (an alternative my doctor mentioned at our last appointment)?
I use straight CPAP with EERS if needed.

I think that straight CPAP is also easier to “titrate at home”. When I had problems with centrals apparently from weight loss (and possibly summer heat – looking back) I simply reduced pressure every seven to ten days one cm/H2O at a time. Some sixty days later the data indicated that “clear airway apnea” went away at 12 cm/H2O and obstructives became part of the scene at 7 cm/H2O.

But the tendency to over breath and so develop hypocapnic central apnea is tied to stress, what we eat, and many other things. It is by no means constant even as and perhaps more than our critical closing pressure (pressure needed to eliminate obstructive events) is also not a constant and why they invented the auto-PAP machines.

Strait CPAP seems to always test out as causing the least arousals. I think it is the best choice. I think it needs to be supported with good lifestyle choices (eat well, move well, manage stress, regard circadian rhythm) and with some of us the use of EERS as needed.
May any shills trolls sockpuppets or astroturfers at cpaptalk.com be like chaff before the wind!

User avatar
archangle
Posts: 9293
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2011 11:55 am

Re: Results of Pressure Changes

Post by archangle » Wed Aug 06, 2014 3:49 pm

I don't put much importance on the peak AHI reading. To me, if anything, it's an indication to look at the daily results and see if there's anything particularly odd happening at that point in time. Remember that the "pros" pretty much only care about nightly average AHI.

Your average nightly OA went from 2.67 to 2.07. The 2.07 was for a fairly short time period. It may not be statistically significant.

One thing I tend to see is that my "real" centrals occur at the end of an exhale and end with an inhale. My obstructives start after an inhale and end with an exhale. I don't know if that's true for others, but it might be worth looking at on your waveforms.

Also, don't forget that your nightly AHI isn't that high to begin with. Also, look at your airflow waveforms and see how long and how significant your apneas are.

_________________
Mask: Swift™ FX Nasal Pillow CPAP Mask with Headgear
Humidifier: S9™ Series H5i™ Heated Humidifier with Climate Control
Additional Comments: Also SleepyHead, PRS1 Auto, Respironics Auto M series, Legacy Auto, and Legacy Plus
Please enter your equipment in your profile so we can help you.
Click here for information on the most common alternative to CPAP.
If it's midnight and a DME tells you it's dark outside, go and check for yourself.

Useful Links.