Buyer Beware BBB Rates Cpap.com with an F

[ChicagoGranny]

I purchased a pillow using the website that said it was the exact replacement. The pillow had changed but cpap claimed they check for that and note it on their website. They refused to accept a return unless I shipped it back on my dime despite it not being the exact replacement I ordered. What's more the lady was very rude on the phone.

I consider this to be a legitimate complaint. Unlike the OP, which seems to be just a case of the customer not understanding how an APAP works.

[chunkyfrog]

It is also important to understand how a business needs to run in order to stay afloat.
When working in retail, we were always on the lookout for customer fraud--and there was plenty.
Customer ignorance is always an unknown, and it is usually the consumer's responsibility to be educated before purchase.
The Goodmans have gone above and beyond by providing the forum, without censorship, to that end.
Thanks!

[jnk]

I am somehow reminded of the story of the little girl whose 3rd grade class had the assignment of writing a short essay on how each one of them had been kind to animals. The little girl wrote: "I kicked a boy for kicking a dog."

When someone writes an emotional post about an experience with a company, he or she probably expects emotional posts from those who, because of good experiences with the company, wish to defend it.

Long-timers here sort of think of themselves as having conversations in Johnny's living room. Or at least, on his screened-in porch. And they post accordingly.

Johnny has admitted that his people have made mistakes in the past, and when the mistake can be explained to him, even on this board, in specific, logical terms, I believe he has responded specifically and logically.

I am glad for the OPs post. It allowed others to post what I did not know about the BBB. So I consider the thread valuable reading for me, whether I agree with anyone's tone or not. Including my own.

Personally, I try not to kick dogs or people on purpose. But if a strange unleashed dog on the street lunges at my ankles, I may not be able to stop my reflex to at least swat at it with my umbrella.

[Sheriff Buford]

I have used cpap.com for several years, and have always done business with them in person, even at their previous location on the southwest freeway. They have always been courteous and offered good service at a fair price. With all the rotten DME's, their service is a blessing. If someone has had bad service with them, they should go elsewhere. Until MY experiences with them goes south, they will get my business and I will recogmend them to anybody.

Take that!!

Sheriff

[Cuda]

I would agree with that. I would still be using their service and recommending it myself had the incident with the pillow not occurred despite whatever anyone else has had happen. In fact I had issues with cpap.com before and they always took care of it. This last time however they told me if the product changed they would take care of it but then later said it did not. Problem is the old pillow after a few years of use is more usable than the new one which is so soft you can actually roll it up compared to the first one that can be hardly bent in half. I used the reorder feature so the product must have changed. I agree DMEs can be bad. I found a decent one but the prices are a bit high. The real business they lose is not so much me telling their customers my experience but rather I have stopped recommending them. I use to bring them up to everyone when discussing cpap. I know a few years ago they would have taken care of their mistake not catching a product change but that's not the case anymore. I'm upset about that as its like losing a friend in a way. I was mad at first but this forum has been more valuable than my doctors so I will eat the loss but unless they make it right they still have lost me as a customer.

[Guest]

I purchased a pillow using the website that said it was the exact replacement. The pillow had changed but cpap claimed they check for that and note it on their website. They refused to accept a return unless I shipped it back on my dime despite it not being the exact replacement I ordered. What's more the lady was very rude on the phone.

I consider this to be a legitimate complaint. Unlike the OP, which seems to be just a case of the customer not understanding how an APAP works.

Sorry, but I don't.
I think CPAP(dot)COM took the proper position in this case. CPAP(dot)COM couldn't know for sure if the manufacturer actually DID make some changes or if this pillow was an anomaly......OR, if the customer's "subjective evaluation" of the product was valid without having the item returned to them. The customer (at that point) should be willing to return the item on THEIR dime until the product can be evaluated. I'm sure in my mind that CPAP(dot)COM would have taken care of the shipping costs in some way or other after the evaluation was completed. In this case, the customer refused to send it back and is bad-mouthing CPAP(dot)COM for his inaction and subjective evaluation of the product.


Den

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[Goofproof]

In this world of throwaway manufacturing, products change specs and components all the time. The seller of a product has no control over it or quality of parts used. The only thing anyone can do is if you don't like something don't buy it.

As far as a seller saying products will always be the same, I can't understand how they could guarantee that over time, to be able to supply like items. If you sell it and don't make it yourself, you don't have that control. You could stock quantitys of items, but you will run out at some time, so making promises like that are unrealistic at best!

This post is getting a lot of play for a meanspitited one nit drive by. Jim

[jnk]

Maybe things have changed.

For example, has this always been the return policy of CPAP.com?:

Return Policy

CPAP.com will accept returns on any unopened product within 30 days of the original ship date. A 15% restocking fee will be subtracted from the original cost and a credit for the difference will be issued. Shipping costs are not refundable. Please note that any product that has been opened can not be returned.

To avoid this, we make every effort to help you be sure of sizes and features of all items prior to purchase. We offer detailed product pages, a mask sizing guide as well as Return Insurance on mask purchases. As always, please call us if you have any doubt or question about your order before it ships. We can be reached toll free at 800-356-5221.

CPAP.com will accept returns on merchandise sold that have manufacturing defects. If the product you purchased has defective materials and/or workmanship, please contact us first for trouble shooting and then, if required, an RMA# will be issued to you via email. Please note that any associated shipping cost to return merchandise to CPAP.com is not covered in any warranty situation.

No credits or refunds will be issued until we have received the product into our facilities and examined them.

A special note about masks and machines:

Mask sizes vary, even between the different models by the same manufacturer. Just because you wear a medium mask in one model, do not assume you wear a medium in another. Check with us to be sure!

As this is medical equipment of a very personal nature, all machines to include CPAP, APAP, BiPAP and Humidifiers, cannot be returned once the parcel has been opened, whether the unit shows hours of usage or not. CPAP and BIPAP warranty decisions for repair or replacement are made by solely by the manufacturer.

Machines (CPAP, APAP and BiPAP) which are experiencing functional issues and are no longer under manufacturer warranty MAY be able to repaired by the manufacturer. This policy varies by manufacturer. A Diagnostic Fee (which varies and is determined by the manufacturer), which may or may not be applied to the actual repair cost (depending on the manufacturer) will be collected prior to submitting the machine to the manufacturer for assessment

https://www.cpap.com/returns.php

Color added by me.

Maybe there are new owners or something? Or maybe I didn't read this before my last order. Enough to make me think twice.

Never had any problem with CPAP.com, myself. But that return policy does sound a little, uh, rough. (And not just the grammar of "by solely by" in the next-to-last paragraph.) Maybe the return policy has to be that rough in today's market. I ain't in the business, so I don't know. And for all I know, that may be the best policy on the Internet among PAP-machine resellers. I haven't researched it. Yet. But before my next order I will. Just sayin'.

[Wulfman...]

I believe I've read that policy in the past and upon re-reading it now......it looks like what I remember reading back then. (whenever that was) In other words, I don't think it's changed.


Den

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[jnk]

Thanks, Den.

That helps.

[kaiasgram]

That return policy looks the same to me too, Jeff. In fact it was because the machine manufacturers (and not the sellers) set the warranty policy that cpap.com sent me a new S9 when there was a problem with my first machine in 2012. ResMed did (and may still) automatically send out a new unit when one comes back under warranty. So then I was able to work out an arrangement with cpap.com where I had them send the new machine and charge it to my credit card, and when it arrived I sent my problem-machine back and they reversed the charge on my card for the new one. I didn't have to go without a machine or pay for a rental.

[Pugsy]

Jeff that return policy is what I remember from 5 years ago when I was considering buying a machine from cpap.com.
I don't think it has changed for machines or the other equipment either.

[jnk]

That return policy looks the same to me too, Jeff. In fact it was because the machine manufacturers (and not the sellers) set the warranty policy that cpap.com sent me a new S9 when there was a problem with my first machine in 2012. ResMed did (and may still) automatically send out a new unit when one comes back under warranty. So then I was able to work out an arrangement with cpap.com where I had them send the new machine and charge it to my credit card, and when it arrived I sent my problem-machine back and they reversed the charge on my card for the new one. I didn't have to go without a machine or pay for a rental.

Thanks.

Maybe it's a good policy then.

After all, I flunked Retailing 101.

[jnk]

Jeff that return policy is what I remember from 5 years ago when I was considering buying a machine from cpap.com.
I don't think it has changed for machines or the other equipment either.

Well, now that I know I can't trust the BBB, or any other review sites, I guess I'll just have to go with the anecdotal evidence of my good experiences (and the collective good experiences of so many posters here) and stick with CPAP.com.

I probably read that policy several times before and just don't remember now. Maybe my memory will be better now that I've been on PAP for some 6 years.

Dang. I was so hoping for a conspiracy! Oh well. I guess I'm a CPAP.com-papper for life then.

Thanks, Pugsy.

Now that I think about it, the fact that drive-by-complaint posts happen so rarely around here could be viewed as evidence of the good service of CPAP.com.

I'll stop bumping the thread, then. My momentary doubt should probably earn ME an "F"!

[johnnygoodman]

Howdy All,

Cuda:

I've reviewed your order. You are right and we are wrong. We will be emailing you a free return label and processing a full refund on receipt.

We hope to earn your future business but understand if that does not occur. We will make you whole on this either way.

Here's background on Cuda's bad experience:

There are occasions where manufacturers of products we carry will make a change they do not consider significant and not inform us of it. Our product receiving team actively looks for changes in the products, however these are not always seen easily when a shipment is received. When a customer calls in and reports the product looks different our policy is to get the product returned to investigate, make it right and check with the manufacturer. If a change has occurred, we update our product information with the change. This process was not followed here. As a result, our default opened item policy was incorrectly enforced.

Robert Joseph:

I looked for an order relating to your name or registered email and could not find any orders. I would like to look review your order to see is a mistake was made. You can private message me, or my wife, carolyngoodman directly so we can locate your order.

Regarding the BBB:

Regarding the BBB my opinion is unchanged. We do not engage with the BBB because we do not believe in buying reviews or being held hostage to be able to reply to reviews.

Here is my original post on the BBB: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=92425&p=853594#p853594

In conclusion:

You are our business. If we lose sight of your needs and experience, we've lost our way. I think that happened here. I'm sorry and I commit to fixing it.

Johnny