Respiratory Rate?

[KenTheriot]

I know this was asked in the past, but I am just looking for a quick, recent, sanity check on my respiratory rate as reported by Sleepy Head. Last night it reported a min of 9.20 BPM and a max of 20.6, with the median being 19.20. From what I've read, this is quite high. Over the past year, my average (median) has been 18.65. Is it cause for concern? By the way, my AHI average during all this time is pretty good at about 0.5.

Thanks!

Ken

[JDS74]

Ken,

Can you look at the tidal volume numbers? Are they lower during times of high breathing rates?
How about the minute vent rate?

The Tidal Volume chart and the breathing rate chart are together in my copy of SleepyHead And I see my Vt is higher when my breathing rate is lower and conversely. Perhaps the same is normal for you.
Looking at a few days' data, when my Patient Triggered Breaths percentage is lower, my respiratory rate range is greater (8-21, avg 12) then on 'good' days (9-18, avg. 14).

Are you having central apneas that could account for the rapid breathing when you resume breathing after an episode?
Perhaps instead of looking at the Max, you concentrate on the 95% number and eliminate the high frequency outliers in the data.

[Julie]

A little confusing - how is l9 the median of 9 and 20? I think you meant the average... the median is the line in the middle, e.g. 15, whereas 'average' is the place where half of the events are over and half under, wherever that line falls (could be at 12, or 17, or anywhere else. The 'median' is the middle of pre-set #'s, whereas the average is wherever on the spectrum half of (whatever is in question) is over and half under.

I can't comment on the other questions, but someone else will.

[robysue]

A little confusing - how is l9 the median of 9 and 20?

Pretty easy actually.

As a very small example. Consider this data set with a total of 15 data points, arranged in order from smallest to largest, including the multiplicity of each number (i.e. how many times it appears in the data set):

9
9
11
11
11
15
16
19
19
19
19
20
20
20
20

The median of this data is 19 because 8th number on the list is 19: (at least) 50% of the data lies AT or BELOW 19 and (at least) 50% of the data lies AT or ABOVE 19.

The average of this data is
(9+9+11+11+11+15+16+19+19+19+19+20+20+20+20)/15 = 238/15 = 15.87

I think you meant the average... the median is the line in the middle, e.g. 15, whereas 'average' is the place where half of the events are over and half under, wherever that line falls (could be at 12, or 17, or anywhere else.

No. Average is the defined as (sum of the data)/(number of data points). For continuous data, "sum of the data" is the area UNDER the curve and "number of data points" is the length of the interval on the horizontal axis. (This is a calculus-based statistics definition.)

Median is the line in the middle, but that's NOT the same as "average the top and bottom numbers of the data. The formal definition of median is the median value of a set of data is equal to n if the data is AT or BELOW n 50% of the time and the data is AT or ABOVE n 50% of the time.

The 'median' is the middle of pre-set #'s,

No. The "middle of pre-set #s" is just the average of the top and bottom numbers. This number has no statistical importance and is unrelated to either the computation of median or average.

whereas the average is wherever on the spectrum half of (whatever is in question) is over and half under.

No. The number where half the data is AT or OVER the value and half the data is AT or BELOW the value is the median of the data, not the average.

See my blog entry Average, Median, 95% numbers: A guide to those who don't remember their introductory stats for a thorough, but elementary explanation of average, median, and 95% value from statistics

[robysue]

I know this was asked in the past, but I am just looking for a quick, recent, sanity check on my respiratory rate as reported by Sleepy Head. Last night it reported a min of 9.20 BPM and a max of 20.6, with the median being 19.20. From what I've read, this is quite high. Over the past year, my average (median) has been 18.65. Is it cause for concern? By the way, my AHI average during all this time is pretty good at about 0.5.

Normal (wake) respiratory rates at rest in adults are usually 12-20 breaths per minute. Sleep breathing in some people is a bit more rapid than wake breathing and sleep breathing is a bit less rapid in other people.

The min BPM number may very well be computed using data that includes one or more of your (rare) apneas, and the presence of an apnea is going to reduce the BPM. Or it's also possible that at some time when you were awake, you were momentarily holding your breath while turning over, and that could also affect the min BPM number.

Since your median is with 12-20 bpm and your max is just outside that range, I don't think you need to worry about your RR numbers, particularly since your AHI is very, very good at 0.5.

The real question you need to be answering is: How do you feel on PAP as compared to pre-PAP? If you are feeling as good as your AHI data, you don't need to worry about things.

[Pugsy]

While my normal range for respiration is normally showing min of 9 or so and max of 20 and sometimes to 30 brief spikes ....sometimes I get some wild spikes that obviously are prolonged and not momentary spikes.
Like this one below which was a bit of a surprise. I guess I must have had a really good or a really bad dream during that time frame. I don't remember anything happening in the middle of the night. My AHI for this night...0.0.
This one gets chalked up to my alien friends messing with me again.

[Julie]

OH! I wasn't relating to the machine #'s (don't have those nor the machine), only what I know about in normal life, where average means half of things (results, whatever) are above and half below, and 'median' means the middle, no matter whether things actually average out on either side of it. Very, very different from what you're talking about... I really must get one of those machines and learn that 'math'. Certainly never expected to see '19' as a middle point between 20 and 9!

[KenTheriot]

Thanks everyone. Pugsy, my graph looks almost exactly like yours!

I sent the info to my sleep doc and will await her response. I'll let you all know what she says.

Thanks again.

Ken

[JDS74]

Robysue,
What a neat, concise, and clear walkthrough of elementary statistics.
Thanks,

[ChicagoGranny]

OH! I wasn't relating to the machine #'s (don't have those nor the machine), only what I know about in normal life, where average means half of things (results, whatever) are above and half below, and 'median' means the middle, no matter whether things actually average out on either side of it. Very, very different from what you're talking about... I really must get one of those machines and learn that 'math'. Certainly never expected to see '19' as a middle point between 20 and 9!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_xjgI5oN8DM

[Julie]