OSA OPERATION ? LATEST ENT SURGERY TO CURE IT!

[DyingOnMyFeet]

Hi I saw an ENT surgeon who specializes in OSA surgery he said he could cure my OSA with a Tonsillectomy uvulopalatopharyngoplasty and tougue channelling procedure to shrink the tougue and stop it from blocking my airways - the coast is $5600.00 in a private hospital one night stay overnight anyone here had the op to cure their OSA this surgeon is adament that he can cure my OSA with this full surgical procedure - can anyone give some advice please - love to you all Peter from Australia.

P.S.

I Guess if someone here has had this op and it cured their OSA they would not be posting on this site anymore sorry if it seems like a dumb ? but just thought I would put it out there to see if their were any replys my surgeon told me the tougue channelling procedure was the last piece of the puzzle they needed to work out to completely cure OSA with surgical methods. They use a newly invented surgical instrument for the tougue channelling procedure to shrink the tougue safely and stop it from blocking the airways during sleep at night.

[jencat824]

I would be very careful in proceeding with this surgery. If they are successful, then ask to speak with other surgical patient in whom this procedure has been successful. I would not want to be the guinea pig for someone who thinks they can surgically cure OSA. To date, I don't think the surgical route is successful, the only tried & true treatment for OSA is PAP therapy. I would hate to see you go thru surgery & to have it be unsuccessful & find yourself worse off than when you started. If it were me, I would not choose the surgical route. Have you even tried PAP therapy?

PAP therapy IS successful, some people have to work harder than others to iron out the potential issues (mask leaks, etc.) but it does work. Myself & many, many others here are living proof. Please be careful & don't rush into surgery.

Jen

[Julie]

Those surgeries have been tried many times by many patients but rarely succeed in 'curing' OSA, which returns within months to a year, only now with more problems using Cpap due to the way anatomy was changed. The UPPP in particular has a very bad rep in that way. ENT surgeons are not your best friends (if they were, we'd all be happy post-op patients ) but unfortunately are not - but most of us are quite happy with our noninvasive Cpap therapy, looking forward to new things that are on the way.

[DyingOnMyFeet]

Those surgeries have been tried many times by many patients but rarely succeed in 'curing' OSA, which returns within months to a year, only now with more problems using Cpap due to the way anatomy was changed. The UPPP in particular has a very bad rep in that way. ENT surgeons are not your best friends (if they were, we'd all be happy post-op patients ) but unfortunately are not - but most of us are quite happy with our noninvasive Cpap therapy, looking forward to new things that are on the way.

Hi Julie - are you talking about just the UPPP procedure part of the operation that has a bad rap or do you mean the that the new tongue reduction channelling procedure is also a bad rap as well - with love Peter from Australia.

P.S. I use a cpap machine for current treatment of OSA.

[49er]

Those surgeries have been tried many times by many patients but rarely succeed in 'curing' OSA, which returns within months to a year, only now with more problems using Cpap due to the way anatomy was changed. The UPPP in particular has a very bad rep in that way. ENT surgeons are not your best friends (if they were, we'd all be happy post-op patients ) but unfortunately are not - but most of us are quite happy with our noninvasive Cpap therapy, looking forward to new things that are on the way.

Hi Julie - are you talking about just the UPPP procedure part of the operation that has a bad rap or do you mean the that the new tongue reduction channelling procedure is also a bad rap as well - with love Peter from Australia.

P.S. I use a cpap machine for current treatment of OSA.

Hi,

UPPP is the one that if I remember correctly, has a below 50% success rate in curing apnea. Also, the statistics for a permanent cure don't last very long.

Haven't seen any statistics on the other procedure but I would ask the ENT for valid studies on success rates. Personally, I would be very leery.

How is your current pap therapy going?

[Sclark08]

I have to believe if there was a at least partly successful procedure most of us would jump at it. Be careful. I know people who suffered from post OSA surgery pain and discomfort and ended up not being any better!

[DyingOnMyFeet]

Those surgeries have been tried many times by many patients but rarely succeed in 'curing' OSA, which returns within months to a year, only now with more problems using Cpap due to the way anatomy was changed. The UPPP in particular has a very bad rep in that way. ENT surgeons are not your best friends (if they were, we'd all be happy post-op patients ) but unfortunately are not - but most of us are quite happy with our noninvasive Cpap therapy, looking forward to new things that are on the way.

Hi Julie - are you talking about just the UPPP procedure part of the operation that has a bad rap or do you mean the that the new tongue reduction channelling procedure is also a bad rap as well - with love Peter from Australia.

P.S. I use a cpap machine for current treatment of OSA.

Hi,

UPPP is the one that if I remember correctly, has a below 50% success rate in curing apnea. Also, the statistics for a permanent cure don't last very long.

Haven't seen any statistics on the other procedure but I would ask the ENT for valid studies on success rates. Personally, I would be very leery.

How is your current pap therapy going?

Hi Julie my ENT surgeon told me that the new tongue reduction channelling procedure has a very high permanent success rate of cure from severe OSA over 85% he told me after he examined my throat and mouth with a nose endoscope he told me I was a perfect candidate for the procedure - my current pap therapy is going ok just tired of taping my mouth up everynight and wearing a tight chin strap over my nasal mask straps which leaves deep indentations in my skin in the morning - with love Peter from Australia

[49er]

Those surgeries have been tried many times by many patients but rarely succeed in 'curing' OSA, which returns within months to a year, only now with more problems using Cpap due to the way anatomy was changed. The UPPP in particular has a very bad rep in that way. ENT surgeons are not your best friends (if they were, we'd all be happy post-op patients ) but unfortunately are not - but most of us are quite happy with our noninvasive Cpap therapy, looking forward to new things that are on the way.

Hi Julie - are you talking about just the UPPP procedure part of the operation that has a bad rap or do you mean the that the new tongue reduction channelling procedure is also a bad rap as well - with love Peter from Australia.

P.S. I use a cpap machine for current treatment of OSA.

Hi,

UPPP is the one that if I remember correctly, has a below 50% success rate in curing apnea. Also, the statistics for a permanent cure don't last very long.

Haven't seen any statistics on the other procedure but I would ask the ENT for valid studies on success rates. Personally, I would be very leery.

How is your current pap therapy going?

Hi Julie my ENT surgeon told me that the new tongue reduction channelling procedure has a very high permanent success rate of cure from severe OSA over 85% he told me after he examined my throat and mouth with a nose endoscope he told me I was a perfect candidate for the procedure - my current pap therapy is going ok just tired of taping my mouth up everynight and wearing a tight chin strap over my nasal mask straps which leaves deep indentations in my skin in the morning - with love Peter from Australia

Hi Peter,

Hmm, with all due respect, I think your ENT is blowing smoke big time. And questionable surgery will leave you with more problems than deep indentations in your skin every morning.

You might want to check out http://www.padacheek.com/ as Karen might have some pads that can help with this.

As far as taping your mouth, are you sure you have to do that? Do you have excessive leaks if you don't?

49er

[DyingOnMyFeet]

Those surgeries have been tried many times by many patients but rarely succeed in 'curing' OSA, which returns within months to a year, only now with more problems using Cpap due to the way anatomy was changed. The UPPP in particular has a very bad rep in that way. ENT surgeons are not your best friends (if they were, we'd all be happy post-op patients ) but unfortunately are not - but most of us are quite happy with our noninvasive Cpap therapy, looking forward to new things that are on the way.

Hi Julie - are you talking about just the UPPP procedure part of the operation that has a bad rap or do you mean the that the new tongue reduction channelling procedure is also a bad rap as well - with love Peter from Australia.

P.S. I use a cpap machine for current treatment of OSA.

Hi,

UPPP is the one that if I remember correctly, has a below 50% success rate in curing apnea. Also, the statistics for a permanent cure don't last very long.

Haven't seen any statistics on the other procedure but I would ask the ENT for valid studies on success rates. Personally, I would be very leery.

How is your current pap therapy going?

Hi Julie my ENT surgeon told me that the new tongue reduction channelling procedure has a very high permanent success rate of cure from severe OSA over 85% he told me after he examined my throat and mouth with a nose endoscope he told me I was a perfect candidate for the procedure - my current pap therapy is going ok just tired of taping my mouth up everynight and wearing a tight chin strap over my nasal mask straps which leaves deep indentations in my skin in the morning - with love Peter from Australia

Hi Peter,

Hmm, with all due respect, I think your ENT is blowing smoke big time. And questionable surgery will leave you with more problems than deep indentations in your skin every morning.

You might want to check out http://www.padacheek.com/ as Karen might have some pads that can help with this.

As far as taping your mouth, are you sure you have to do that? Do you have excessive leaks if you don't?

49er

Hi 49er pleased to meet you - I have the pads already thanks for the advice though as far as taping my mouth up it is the only way I can keep my mouth completely shut during the night and not waking me up all the time with mouth leak noise I am going to try a full face cloth mask by dreamweaver I already use the nasal dreamweaver elan mask with taped mouth and tight chin strap If I can tolerate the dreamweaver fullface cloth mask then I won't need to tape my mouth shut or use a tight chin strap - with love Peter from Australia P.S. My ENT surgeon seemed like a very polite kind understanding man who claimed he could cure me completely with the latest techniques in OSA surgery.

[49er]

Hi 49er pleased to meet you - I have the pads already thanks for the advice though as far as taping my mouth up it is the only way I can keep my mouth completely shut during the night and not waking me up all the time with mouth leak noise I am going to try a full face cloth mask by dreamweaver I already use the nasal dreamweaver elan mask with taped mouth and tight chin strap If I can tolerate the dreamweaver fullface cloth mask then I won't need to tape my mouth shut or use a tight chin strap - with love Peter from Australia P.S. My ENT surgeon seemed like a very polite kind understanding man who claimed he could cure me completely with the latest techniques in OSA surgery.

Hi Peter,

Nice to meet you too.

Good luck with the Anew Mask. If that doesn't work, there are other full face masks to try.

Not to sound like I am beating a dead horse but no matter how confident your surgeon is, you need to be very skeptical of his claims. Your life depends on it.

49er

[The Latinist]

I would be very skeptical of any surgeon who was "adamant" that he could cure your OSA. It is not that I doubt that some people can be cured or helped surgically; I'm sure some can and have been. But a responsible surgeon will not make extravagant claims like that, however privately confident he is. The fact is that there are far too many unknowns with any surgery to be that sure of it.

[Julie]

Many of the world's greediest and/or even honestly well meaning people have been 'nice' at a social level. That's completely irrelevant to whether or not any procedure is a good idea for you, and if the surgeon's any good even if doing a job that won't help.

I don't know enough about the tongue procedure except that I know I wouldn't want it done. How many FF masks in your size and well fitted by a knowledgable person have you really tried, lying down?

[DyingOnMyFeet]

I would be very skeptical of any surgeon who was "adamant" that he could cure your OSA. It is not that I doubt that some people can be cured or helped surgically; I'm sure some can and have been. But a responsible surgeon will not make extravagant claims like that, however privately confident he is. The fact is that there are far too many unknowns with any surgery to be that sure of it.

Hi Latinist pleased to meet you - what my surgeon told me was that I had over a 85% success rate chance of curing my OSA with the latest surgical techniques after examining me with a nose endoscope he said I was the perfect candidate for the surgery if I am wrong the worst that can happen is my ENT surgeon lied to me and I wasted $5600.00 on an operation that did not work so it would be back to cpap for the rest of my life - with love Peter from Australia

[Pugsy]

if I am wrong the worst that can happen is my ENT surgeon lied to me and I wasted $5600.00

Wrong...the worst that can happen to you is all that missing tissue in the back of the throat that can't ever be put back.
Can't pronounce words like you used to (the uvula thing is kinda important for speech)
Can't drink liquids without them shooting out your nose
Google complications from the UPPP procedure...the list is long.
The pain....no one has ever said the UPPP wasn't anything but horribly painful
If it fails..almost every UPPP patient here at the forum has trouble finding optimal pressure...and yes...we have UPPP patients here
Have no idea what the tongue channeling thing does but it sounds scarier than hell.

Only thing I might do or consider doing would be the tonsillectomy...first and all by itself and only if the tonsils were chronically enlarged.

What was your AHI pre cpap?
What constitutes "success" from the doctor's point of view? Remember his idea of success may not be the same as yours.
Does he have post op follow up sleep studies to confirm whatever his "success" is?
How many of these "make a boat payment" procedures has he done? Confirmation of success? How?
Is it a 50% reduction in apnea events? Would be great if your AHI pre cpap was 10....and totally suck if it was 50 like mine was.

Sounds like some sort of tongue ablation procedure. That's been around in some form or other for a long time without any great success rate.

You can put the money back in your bank account if it fails.....you can't do a damn thing about the permanently missing tissue in your mouth and throat. Hell, even a trach is reversible.

[The Latinist]

Sounds like some sort of tongue ablation procedure. That's been around in some form or other for a long time without any great success rate.

I googled it. It's an RF tongue ablation (for some reason it seems to be called "coblation" -- the only difference being the use of RF). It uses a probe that's inserted deep into the tongue to kill muscle tissue inside the tongue, creating "channels" around the probe while leaving the surface (relatively) untouched. The tongue is then supposed to heal around the channels that have been burned into it, causing it to shrink.

From the studies I found, it seems to be a procedure popular in Australia and perhaps developed there.

I found this abstract from a group of Australian doctors:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23372463

The important information to note, I think, is that postoperative follow-up was conducted only at 3 months. My understanding is that many surgical interventions, while initially successful, are not effective in the long-term.