need help with Sleepyhead data

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49er
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Re: need help with Sleepyhead data

Post by 49er » Sun May 18, 2014 8:58 am

Pugsy wrote:Check out the side effects of Xanax
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alprazolam
especially these
Anterograde amnesia[45] and concentration problems
Drowsiness, dizziness, lightheadedness, fatigue, unsteadiness and impaired coordination, vertigo[4
I don't know the half life...I don't know if it is entirely to blame for your daytime sleepiness, etc but it is a potential culprit.
Something to talk to your doctor about.
Xanax could also be causing the early morning wakes which are resulting in difficulty in getting back to sleep.

http://www.rxlist.com/xanax-side-effect ... center.htm
sleep problems (insomnia);
Obviously, not definite proof but something to explore since even though psych meds can be beneficial in some ways for sleep, they can be disruptive to the sleep cycle in other ways.

You also said,
I do take a lot of vitamin/mineral supplements. I take some combination of the following with meals: vitamins C, D, E, B complex, B12, L-methyl folate, multi-mineral, magnesium glycinate, fish oil, evening primrose oil.
You might want to evaluate whether the supplements are playing a role in your sleep difficulties. Depending on your system, B vitamins, Folate and B12 can be quite activating. So can fish oil. Even the other supplements which don't have a reputation for being disruptive to sleep can have paradoxical effects depending on how sensitive your system is.

49er

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Sir NoddinOff
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Re: need help with Sleepyhead data

Post by Sir NoddinOff » Sun May 18, 2014 10:59 am

Sometimes it's easier just to copy and paste the HTML quote header and the HTML end quote side by side together in the multiple places you want to insert a specific reply, however do it before you enter text, that comes last. I always put in more than I need cuz you can always erase any you don't use. Next simply type your replies between your cut and pastes, ie. between the bracketed segments. For less complicated replies this works fine, and no word processor is required.

Back to the OPs original stuff: I tend to agree with 49er on the Xanax... I'd take a close look at what it is doing TO you as opposed to what it is doing FOR you.

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Re: need help with Sleepyhead data

Post by wearysoul » Sun May 18, 2014 8:49 pm

Hi robysue, I'll try to pick up where I left off last night . . . and include replies to the questions you added since then.
robysue wrote:If those are the kinds of things that start going through your mind when you first become aware of the fact that you are awake, then you are likely making the wake last longer and you are making it harder to get back to sleep.
Yes, my thoughts are similar to those you described. I know the mental gymnastics (even though I feel lethargic when they occur) are making it harder to go back to sleep. When I first become aware I'm awake, I just sort of mentally groan, notice how tired I feel, and hate the options: tossing and turning in bed or getting up. I don't try to figure out why I'm awake, but I feel upset because I know that nearly always it means I'll be awake for a while.
robysue wrote:Turn the clock around so you can't see it when you first wake up. And try not to obsess about finding out the time when you do wake up at night.
I don't immediately look at the clock when I wake up, but when I get up, I do check the time. I have a cheap battery-powered clock that cannot be seen easily in the dark. I have to use a little flashlight. In a way, keeping the sleep log now seems to make it necessary to check the time. But I was doing it before CBT-I too.
robysue wrote: When you first become aware of the fact that you are awake, pay attention to your physical comfort rather than wondering or worrying about your (lack) of sleep. Does the pillow need fluffed or squashed. Covers need thrown off or pulled up? If there's nothing in particular that seems wrong, assume that there really is nothing wrong and give yourself permission to just turn over and (try to) go back to sleep. If you can't get back to sleep after a bit, you can always get up ..
Try to not micro analyze the wakes, particularly during the night. Most likely there really is no particular reason why you are waking up, other than you're in the habit of waking up (and then worrying about the fact that you are awake).
Great ideas . . . especially about paying attention to physical comfort. Also, one thing I've tried a few times recently is to pay attention to my breathing. I count four breaths over and over. Sometimes doing that helps to distract me.
robysue wrote:Are the following estimates instead of based on what the clock says:
minutes it took to fall asleep
number of minutes of each awakening
time of final awakening (I could see if this one is "clock", more on that in a bit)
Yes, they're estimates, except for the awakenings that cause me to get up for a period of time. Then I look at the clock.
robysue wrote:If you are relying on looking at the clock for the "time" of the last awakening, you might be better off using the CPAP: Turn the machine OFF and back ON before turning over to go back to sleep. The time of the wake will be easy to find in the CPAP data when you look at it in Sleepy Head.
Another good idea. I'll do it.
robysue wrote:How many arousals and how aware were you of them?
I'd say three or four arousals . . . and I'm very aware they're occurring. It's hard to say exactly how many because during that period I'm waking briefly and then going back down. Not awake long enough to remember. It's that restless stirring you mentioned.
robysue wrote:If you went to bed at 10:30, would you sleep until 5:30 and then be able to get up for the day? Or would you wake up at around 3:30 and have a difficult time getting back to sleep?
I'm pretty confident I'd wake up around 3:30 and have a hard time getting back to sleep! Before CBT-I, whatever time I went to bed it seemed my wakeup would almost always occur around 5 hours later.

I'll reply to the other folks who made suggestions tomorrow. Many thanks to you all.

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Re: need help with Sleepyhead data

Post by robysue » Mon May 19, 2014 8:51 am

wearysoul wrote:
robysue wrote:If those are the kinds of things that start going through your mind when you first become aware of the fact that you are awake, then you are likely making the wake last longer and you are making it harder to get back to sleep.
Yes, my thoughts are similar to those you described. I know the mental gymnastics (even though I feel lethargic when they occur) are making it harder to go back to sleep. When I first become aware I'm awake, I just sort of mentally groan, notice how tired I feel, and hate the options: tossing and turning in bed or getting up. I don't try to figure out why I'm awake, but I feel upset because I know that nearly always it means I'll be awake for a while.
As soon as you start the "mental groaning" and "hating the options" and allow yourself to "feel upset", you are making the wake last longer and making yourself feel worse.

In other words: Expecting to have trouble getting back to sleep and being upset about being awake may cause you to stay wake longer and have more trouble getting back to sleep.

So you need some behavior strategies to short-circuit the "getting upset because you know that nearly always it (noticing the wake) means you'll be awake for a while." So you now have something specific to ask the CBT-I person: Ask for specific tips on how to keep your mind from starting down this path.
robysue wrote:Turn the clock around so you can't see it when you first wake up. And try not to obsess about finding out the time when you do wake up at night.
I don't immediately look at the clock when I wake up, but when I get up, I do check the time. I have a cheap battery-powered clock that cannot be seen easily in the dark. I have to use a little flashlight. In a way, keeping the sleep log now seems to make it necessary to check the time. But I was doing it before CBT-I too.
Talk the CBT-I person. The sleep log should NOT require you to look at a clock from the time you record "time I went to bed" to "time I got up for the moring." Between those two times, you really ought to NOT look at a clock at all. All times should be estimated---the reason is that much of insomnia is in the perception of the insomniac: Most insomniacs get more sleep than they think they do---if they're not busy all night long documenting how much (or how little) sleep they got.

If you really think that you need to know the time each wake occurs, use the PAP to document the wakes by turning your machine OFF and then back ON. Is it a bit inconvenient? Yes, but it's no more inconvenient than your flashlight needed to look at the clock is. And, in the long run, turning the PAP OFF and ON will be less disruptive since it won't cause you to focus on the time.

You'll know your insomina is getting better, by the way, when you start to notice OFF/ON cycles in your PAP data that you have no memory of----those are short (normal) wakes where you got back to sleep without thinking about being awake in the middle of the night.
robysue wrote: When you first become aware of the fact that you are awake, pay attention to your physical comfort rather than wondering or worrying about your (lack) of sleep. ...
Great ideas . . . especially about paying attention to physical comfort. Also, one thing I've tried a few times recently is to pay attention to my breathing. I count four breaths over and over. Sometimes doing that helps to distract me.[/quote]Ever do any mindfulness exercises or meditation? Those can also help some people.

Another idea: Get yourself a pair of cheap external speakers for the iPod and make it possible for you to turn the iPod to your "sleepy music" when you are still in bed. When you wake up, turn the iPod on and see if that helps your mind stay at ease instead of starting to focus on all the negative things about "being awake".
robysue wrote:Are the following estimates instead of based on what the clock says:
minutes it took to fall asleep
number of minutes of each awakening
time of final awakening (I could see if this one is "clock", more on that in a bit)
Yes, they're estimates, except for the awakenings that cause me to get up for a period of time. Then I look at the clock.
You have to break the "look at the clock habit." And that's even important for the wakes that make you get out of bed for a time. You are better off NOT looking at the clock at all for the entire time you're out of bed.

Look at it this way: Right now, you wake up, can't get back to sleep and you KNOW that it's 5:30 and you EXPECT that you won't get back to sleep until it's 6:30 and you KNOW that wake up time is 7:00. So of course you worry and get distressed.

If you didn't look at the clock, you could hope that the wake isn't so close to wake up time and you could focus on what it takes to get sleepy without fretting that you'll have at most 30 minutes of sleep time when you go back to bed. You might just get sleepier FASTER if you didn't know what time it was.

So use the CPAP to document the long wakes rather than mentally taking note by looking at the clock. You'll be able to tell exactly when you got up and how log you were out of bed by looking at the CPAP data.

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