Is it posible to become dependent on CPAP?

[Denial Dave]

Yes, there are molecules of drugs in the filter. The more you use the machine & mask; it becomes addictive. You'll never be able to sleep without it again.

[BlackSpinner]

I recently did a workshop on dementia and pain and they addressed this "dependent" issue.
Dependent does not equal addicted.
Dependent refers to something you need to function as well as you could and be as comfortable as you could. It is not a negative aspect. My mothers wheelchair, insulin and pace maker are not decreasing her quality of life.

[robysue]

I recently did a workshop on dementia and pain and they addressed this "dependent" issue.
Dependent does not equal addicted.

This is, indeed, an important distinction.

[

[Todzo]

Ideally my Doc would like to see me off all my Meds including CPAP, but I wonder if we can become artificially dependent on this therapy. The assumption around here is that CPAP is forever, but I wonder if we can, over time, we loss an ability we once had simply through lack of use.

Well after years of pursuing metabolic health my need for CPAP pressure is reduced.

Pursue metabolic health and self titrate (reduce pressure in small steps and look at your flow data carefully for a week or so before deciding what to do next) from time to time. Perhaps you CAN get off of CPAP.

Remember that the medical community (well represented here) has no economic interest in getting you well.

I think I would keep that doctor!

[bavinck]

Remember that the medical community (well represented here) has no economic interest in getting you well.

Come on now. This kind of statement is just blindly insulting to the whole of the group of medical professionals that care about people and earnestly desire to see them better and even cured whenever possible. Sure, Resmed and such are economically benefiting from illness, but only so far as medical professionals that want to help people allow them to. Don't paint the whole field with one completely unfair, one dimensional, and narrow minded brush.

[Mabutu]

@Todzo
where can i learn more about metabolic health?

[Todzo]

@Todzo
where can i learn more about metabolic health?

I think the old Hebrew concept of knowing needing to involve doing is appropriate here.

A dietitian for at least three years. Learn to cook as you go. Just a few changes each month but be consistent month to month. I met with my dietitian every six weeks for about that long. See if you can find someone very experienced and still involved with the constant reading they do. As T. Colin Campbell points out nutrition does not play well with our reductionist ways[1]. If you find someone who understands that - the advise will be practical. The effort is the most important part. You need to learn to eat well and I have come to believe that should be a life long endeavor for each of us.

A personal trainer for at least three years. Pursue an active lifestyle. My father and mother were wonderful artists, musicians indeed! But they also well qualified as couch potatoes. I never learned how to move well. The idea of moving over four miles a day using my own feet is a concept I simply never had. A good personal trainer for the couch potato lot is a bit harder to find. I lucked out with a PhD Physiologist who was able to guide me toward upper body strength without hurting my bursa. I was by that time in pretty good aerobic health but a little guided push is nearly always a good thing.

In general this is about learning to take very good care of your body. Eat well, move well, live well. To supply the needs for nutrients and activity that will make every cell in your body a happy cell. It is a goal that is unique for all of us because we are unique. So I can give you a starting point but it will be your own research and activity that gets you there.

[1] http://www.amazon.com/Whole-Rethinking- ... 1937856240

[ems]

To answer the OP's original question, I could care less if I'm "dependent" on something. If it's helping me I could care less... CPAP or anything else.

[JohnBFisher]

To answer the OP's original question, I could care less if I'm "dependent" on something. If it's helping me I could care less... CPAP or anything else.

Amen! I am dependant on my ASV unit .. not that I have lost any ability because of the ASV unit. Instead I need the ASV unit because my body no longer reliably breathes on its own. So the unit replaces a capability I once had but no longer do have. So yes, I depend on it.

Likewise I am dependant on an insulin pump. My pancreas no longer reliably produces insulin. The pump helps me maintain a healthy blood glucose level.

Likewise I need glasses. Without them I can only barely see. With them my vision is about 20/60. Not good, but acceptable.

But this is NOT the same as an addiction. My health and welfare is not diminished by these things. Rather it is better with them. It's rather like an anti-addiction. I am better with these tools than without them.

[49er]

To answer the OP's original question, I could care less if I'm "dependent" on something. If it's helping me I could care less... CPAP or anything else.

Exactly!

The main reason I am having a septoplasty and turbinate reduction is so I can better tolerate pap therapy and become "dependent" on it so it will greatly improve my health.

49er

[49er]

@Todzo
where can i learn more about metabolic health?

I would also google paleo diets as many people have had great success improving their metabolic health with this type of diet.

Back to the original topic.

49er

[rkuntz]

To help here are some answers to help put the Topic in context and answer some of the honest questions raised.

My Doc wants me off CPAP because happily is one of those who is an advocate of minimal intervention.

Sleep Lab result was +30 AHI baseline.

Anatomically normal Inhalation requires muscular effort and normal Exhalation is passive. Having to force exhalation against pressure is not normal.

Several that spring to my mind are:
1) The back Braces that the UPS and FEd Ex Drivers were required to use about 15 years ago to support the back prevent injuries. Opps, the muscles atrophied and back injuries increased. They're not widely used any more.
2) Sitting ( the next big health push now that smoking has in declined as a public health issue) all that time on your butt in front of the Computer and Driving the car while never climbing the stairs or walking more than a couple of blocks has big negative metabolic impacts.

It made my Doc's day, I mean he was really happy when he was able to halve my BP Meds, and eliminate the Statin after I lost 30 lbs. Additionally my 30 day AHI avg. has dropped from 5.5 to 3.5 with that weight loss and he's talking about lowering pressures.

My response to those with the snarky comments is that denial and fear of sleeping without out mechanical ventilation can be, in and of themselves, signs of dependency. If you need to and can, loss some weight, explore Ketogenic diets, get on your feet and Sing. Can't hurt, might help.

[robysue]

Sleep Lab result was +30 AHI baseline.

Your baseline study puts your UNTREATED OSA into the SEVERE category. Severe OSA is seldom caused by nothing but weight; severe OSA is usually caused by the physical structure of the upper airway. And untreated severe OSA can and does lead to metabolic changes which make it easy to put excess weight on and difficult to lose as long as the OSA remains untreated.

Simply put: Your severe untreated OSA may well have led to the weight gain rather than the other way round.

My response to those with the snarky comments is that denial and fear of sleeping without out mechanical ventilation can be, in and of themselves, signs of dependency.

The thing is: CPAP is NOT mechanical ventilation. The CPAP machine does NOT breathe for you. All it does is make it much more difficult for your upper airway to collapse; your body still does all the normal work of breathing all night long. And it is not snarky to point out statements that you make that are downright incorrect.

It made my Doc's day, I mean he was really happy when he was able to halve my BP Meds, and eliminate the Statin after I lost 30 lbs.

Good for you. But I bet that the doc cut those BP meds only while monitoring your BP on the lower dose and that he eliminated the Statin only after confirming the cholesterol was where he wanted it through blood tests.

Additionally my 30 day AHI avg. has dropped from 5.5 to 3.5 with that weight loss and he's talking about lowering pressures.

You need to keep in mind that it is your TREATED AHI that has dropped from 5.5 to 3.5.

No-one---not you and not your doc---has any idea at this point of what your UNTREATED AHI is now that you've lost the weight.

And to ditch your PAP safely requires your UNTREATED AHI to be at or near normal levels. And I sure hope your doc understands this point and orders a new sleep test to find out what the UNTREATED AHI is once you're at your target weight and have kept the target weight for some time.

Realistically speaking, even with the weight loss your untreated AHI is probably about the same as it was before you started PAP. (For most people with moderate to severe OSA, the real problem lies in the structure of the upper airway and losing weight doesn't really affect the structure of the upper airway.) But it's possible that your untreated AHI could be (significantly) lower now that you've lost the weight---if the excess weight was the only cause of the OSA. Or (ironically) your untreated AHI could be worse than before---there are people on this board who have lost the excess weight only to find their untreated OSA got worse when they went in for a follow-up sleep test without the PAP.

A sleep test (sans PAP) is the only way to really know for sure what's going on and whether your untreated AHI is low enough to conclude that you don't need a PAP at night.

[BlackSpinner]

To help here are some answers to help put the Topic in context and answer some of the honest questions raised.

My Doc wants me off CPAP because happily is one of those who is an advocate of minimal intervention.

Sleep Lab result was +30 AHI baseline.

Anatomically normal Inhalation requires muscular effort and normal Exhalation is passive. Having to force exhalation against pressure is not normal.

Several that spring to my mind are:
1) The back Braces that the UPS and FEd Ex Drivers were required to use about 15 years ago to support the back prevent injuries. Opps, the muscles atrophied and back injuries increased. They're not widely used any more.
2) Sitting ( the next big health push now that smoking has in declined as a public health issue) all that time on your butt in front of the Computer and Driving the car while never climbing the stairs or walking more than a couple of blocks has big negative metabolic impacts.

It made my Doc's day, I mean he was really happy when he was able to halve my BP Meds, and eliminate the Statin after I lost 30 lbs. Additionally my 30 day AHI avg. has dropped from 5.5 to 3.5 with that weight loss and he's talking about lowering pressures.

My response to those with the snarky comments is that denial and fear of sleeping without out mechanical ventilation can be, in and of themselves, signs of dependency. If you need to and can, loss some weight, explore Ketogenic diets, get on your feet and Sing. Can't hurt, might help.

AHI 30 plus is not "normal" and not mild either. Denial is real in most people when diagnosed, next comes anger and then bargaining - like you are doing. Most of us were not over weight when our OSA developed - it is often caused by the structure of the throat - the ability to talk is what humans traded in for this risk factor. I can and do many of those snarky recommendations but it won't make one bit of difference to my AHI. Less then 50% of people can get off cpap therapy with weight loss, for some weight loss requires MORE pressure. Your decrease in BP meds was probably due to your cpap therapy.

Go and walk in the snow in bare feet - clothes and shoes are not "normal" either in nature.

[robysue]

Go and walk in the snow in bare feet - clothes and shoes are not "normal" either in nature.

Make that "Go and walk in the snow NUDE and in bare feet" since clothes and shoes are not normal in nature ...