What Do You Think of BMI?

[NameGoesHere]

You can't invalidate the entire system due to a few outliers that don't fit (e.g. body builders). It's only the extreme end of the scale that doesn't fit the model, not just some guy who spends a bit of time at the gym. When I was in the military and in great shape (not so much anymore) I was in the range predicted as healthy by BMI. That was during active training and spending the majority of each day exercising (hours of gym time every day, getting slayed in the dirt, O-course, hours of PT, running to every meal, etc... well beyond 99% of the populace' workout routine). I had plenty of muscle mass and it didn't tip me over the top of the scale, not even into overweight let alone obese. I think a lot of people underestimate how much fat they are carrying. The vast majority of people can absolutely lose enough fat to easily fall into the target ranges. It's not "big bones", too much muscle mass, or water retention that are causing us to be over weight. We're just fat and have to eat less and work out more. I'd being willing to bet that no one on this board is outside of the BMI predicted healthy ranges for ANY of those reasons*.

*any of those may be a very small contribution but eating properly and exercising (read, losing the extra fat) would get anyone here in range despite any other contributing factor.

[SleepyToo2]

BMI may be old (I don't know one way or the other). I have seen somewhere that waist circumference may be a better measure of obesity - IMHO it should be some kind of combination of waist circumference and BMI, but how you combine the 2 into a scale I have no idea.

[djhall]

You can't invalidate the entire system due to a few outliers that don't fit (e.g. body builders). It's only the extreme end of the scale that doesn't fit the model, not just some guy who spends a bit of time at the gym.

Do you really think it is that hard for a 5'10" male who works out regularly and has <18% body fat to weigh more than 167 lbs? For comparison, this guy is 5'10 170lbs. http://bf-1.com/BF1EFit/wp-content/uplo ... rlie-2.jpg

[BlackSpinner]

Hello again fellow x-PAPers,

In my opinion the BMI is wrong. I think the idea is sound; it’s the numbers that drive me nuts. Am I overweight? Yes. I'm a 55 year old male, weight 211 at 5’8”. But according to the BMI, to be healthy I need to lose close to 100 lbs. I can see 20 – 30 lbs., but 100? That’s crazy.


Joe

BMI was designed and is used for statistical analysis of populations and it works very well for that. It is not that useful except as a guide for individuals. With individuals you have to take into account bones structure and muscle mass and WHERE the fat is located.
Find a dietician and a personal trainer.

[RogerSC]

Personally, I treat BMI as just one indicator in figuring out how to improve my health. LIke, since my blood pressure was going up, I didn't have a lot of energy, and noticed some new curves in the mirror (I think that they were actually mine *smile*), I weighed myself. Something I do pretty seldom. Then looked at my BMI just to see where it put me. I was over the line into "obese", so I added 5 days a week of walks to my daily routine. Having the time to do it in the morning was really key for me, but you can do the same exercise on a treadmill any time of day. I happen to live by the ocean, so the outside walks along the cliffs are really helpful to my psyche as well *smile*.

To make a long story short, I've lost about 15 lbs. now, and am below the "obese" BMI line. Feeling better, have more energy, enough to make the walks do-able. But there are other indicators, blood pressure, overall energy level, and so on. BMI is just one thing...you could have a low BMI and still not feel energetic for a lot of reasons. Weight is just one indicator, but it can make a difference in how you feel, how you feel about yourself, and that affects how you act towards others, and how your life in general is going to be. I want to lose more weight but am hung up on making dietary changes, and issue with eating for comfort and situational eating sometimes *smile*.

I think that my point is to add exercise (or more exercise) to your life, in whatever way that you can fit into your day, on a treadmill or stationary bicycle reading a book or watching TV, or taking a walk outside. I'm not a weight lifter, that works on a different component of self esteem *smile*, but that's also good exercise. Make sure to have an aerobic component of the total sum of what you do. Forget the 10,000 steps a day and just get going with it, in fact not trying to do too much the first day will be really helpful, do what you can do without killing yourself. Just keep going, you'll feel your stamina building and will be able to do more. Chances are that you'll actually do more because you can, and so on.

Just get started.

[NameGoesHere]

You can't invalidate the entire system due to a few outliers that don't fit (e.g. body builders). It's only the extreme end of the scale that doesn't fit the model, not just some guy who spends a bit of time at the gym.

Do you really think it is that hard for a 5'10" male who works out regularly and has <18% body fat to weigh more than 167 lbs? For comparison, this guy is 5'10 170lbs. http://bf-1.com/BF1EFit/wp-content/uplo ... rlie-2.jpg

Yes, I would expect someone that works out regularly and builds a lot of muscle mass (the fellow in your picture had a good deal of muscle mass) would be borderline overweight but healthy. In the Marines during recruit training and MCT I was in the same situation, I was right on the border for my height (considerably taller and heavier than that fellow) but I worked out hard nearly all the time from 04:15 to 20:00 every day but Sunday (granted breaks for chow, showers, classes [yes we had them] but we're still talking effectively a full time job of working out to levels that civilians rarely do). We had weigh ins and we used something that if it was not the BMI was damn close to it. Are you trying to state that you are obese because of your Mr. Universe training? I find these statements are usually made by people trying to invalidate the whole system based on a few outside cases because they don't like their own placement on the list.

Personally, I'm just on the wrong side of obese right now. I don't think most people would call me obese looking at me but I think that's due to popular culture portraying obese as a 5'10" 400 lb guy or watching too many shows about eating 30,000 calories a day. Those people are also obese (morbidly, dangerously obese) but so is the guy who's carrying the extra 50-75 pounds. Unfortunately it seems people think "well I'm not as fat as that guy I saw on TV or the stock news footage so I'm not at risk." I think that that line of thought (and denial) lead to trying to discredit BMI but in reality if you are in the obese range on the BMI scale you really should be taking a close look at your health. If you are a competitive body builder and the exception to the rule good for you but I doubt that's the real reason. I believe my BMI rating is correct as are the majority of BMIs for people who try to challenge the validity of the scale.

[BlackSpinner]

BMI may be old (I don't know one way or the other). I have seen somewhere that waist circumference may be a better measure of obesity - IMHO it should be some kind of combination of waist circumference and BMI, but how you combine the 2 into a scale I have no idea.

It is the ratio of hip to waist line (2 inches above the hip bone approximately - not "the narrowest part between hips and arm pit" fashion line) that indicates the risk. Fatty tissue in the waist area points to much higher risk for heart attacks and other issues.

[Goofproof]

I don't worry about BMI or anything like that, I know enough about my body, it's strengths and weaknesses.

I choose to spend my time trying to maximize my health as best I can. Worrying about being "In the normal range", isn't productive, I know what's wrong and needs to be fixed. I put my effort into that, and work on correcting what I can. Jim

[kaiasgram]

Doing some sort of aerobic exercise is important too.

Yeah, but not as far as weight loss is concerned:

http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/08/0 ... blogs&_r=0

Is this bad news or good news?

[djhall]

You can't invalidate the entire system due to a few outliers that don't fit (e.g. body builders). It's only the extreme end of the scale that doesn't fit the model, not just some guy who spends a bit of time at the gym.

Do you really think it is that hard for a 5'10" male who works out regularly and has <18% body fat to weigh more than 167 lbs? For comparison, this guy is 5'10 170lbs. http://bf-1.com/BF1EFit/wp-content/uplo ... rlie-2.jpg

I find these statements are usually made by people trying to invalidate the whole system based on a few outside cases because they don't like their own placement on the list.

Personally, I'm just on the wrong side of obese right now. I don't think most people would call me obese looking at me but I think that's due to popular culture portraying obese as a 5'10" 400 lb guy or watching too many shows about eating 30,000 calories a day. Those people are also obese (morbidly, dangerously obese) but so is the guy who's carrying the extra 50-75 pounds. Unfortunately it seems people think "well I'm not as fat as that guy I saw on TV or the stock news footage so I'm not at risk." I think that that line of thought (and denial) lead to trying to discredit BMI but in reality if you are in the obese range on the BMI scale you really should be taking a close look at your health. If you are a competitive body builder and the exception to the rule good for you but I doubt that's the real reason. I believe my BMI rating is correct as are the majority of BMIs for people who try to challenge the validity of the scale.

I more agree with you than disagree with you. The real problem I have with BMI 1) is the scale and methodology are skewed enough downward that it is easy anyone to find the exceptions and 2) our perception of "normal" weight is skewed too high because of rampant obesity in or society. Putting those two things together, I don't think BMI has enough inherent credibility to ever be taken seriously by the people who need it most... those in denial. The main benefit of BMI, the ease of measurement, is also, its biggest weakness.

Now, put someone in a water immersion body fat test.... good luck trying to argue away that result. I suspect most people on the wrong side of the BMI are going to fail that spectacularly too, since the vast majority of the population is undeniably overweight. Unfortunately, that is impractical on a large scale.

[djhall]

Doing some sort of aerobic exercise is important too.

Yeah, but not as far as weight loss is concerned:

http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/08/0 ... blogs&_r=0

Is this bad news or good news?

"'The implication, the scientists concluded, is that “active, ‘traditional’ lifestyles may not protect against obesity if diets change to promote increased caloric consumption.' That is, even active people will pack on pounds if they eat like most of us in the West. The underlying and rather disheartening message of that finding, of course, is that physical activity by itself is not going to make and keep you thin."

The real question should be, "How can this be news to anyone?" Has anyone been proclaiming the health benefits of diet OR exercise? Diet AND exercise as regular a way of life has been the only proven formula for as long as I can remember. I suppose we will always be hoping for an easy and effective shortcut.

[RogerSC]

Well, I get more benefits out of my exercise than calorie burning and weight maintenance *smile*. It helps me feel more energetic, healthy, vital, more connected to the world in general, and plays a role in having a more positive attitude towards my life. So I could mathematically figure it all out, but I know from experience that I can lose weight using exercise up to a point, and then after that I can continue to exercise to maintain what I've lost. Then use diet to tip the balance the other way, towards weight loss again, when I'm ready for that.

And all along, have the health and psychic benefits of exercise *smile*.

So it goes.

[Cuda]

BMI is rather accurate as it has a range. That does not mean it applies to everyone though but from what I read it applies to most. I am not a nutritionist or doctor but I was told by one that waist size and body fat percentage were far more useful. Mens waist size should be under 40 and women under 35 to avoid the major problems of obesity.

I would recommend going to a decent gym and paying a known decent trainer for a work up. They will test body fat percentage and do a fitness evaluation and usually write up a plan for you to follow.

Body fat percentage will tell you how much unwanted weight you have, unwanted being excess fat. You don't want to lose muscle.

I thought the BMI was a joke but as it turns out I was just in denial and did not want to hear the truth. I was at 241 and it was saying at 6'1 I should be 145-190. That's a rather large range but I thought 190 was way to low.

I am now 170 (34 inch waist) and could still drop another 10-15 pounds (155-160, 31-32 waist). I would have never thought that when I was at 240. But I know I have more to lose as my body fat percentage is still a little high. I plan to drop that to optimum and then add some muscle mass.

Never underestimate the power of denial.

[NameGoesHere]

@djhall looks like we're closer in opinion than I thought.

@cuda yeah, that's part of what I was attempting to say. I think that people who were never in the correct range (or weren't paying attention when they were) tend to think, "I couldn't drop that much weight," when in fact most can. I believe a lot of people - for many and varied reasons - simply underestimate how much extra fat they are carrying. The guy who should lose 50 pounds thinks he's only 20-25 over weight. Then they look at the range the chart recommends and think there's no way that's correct. Yet for most of us it is.

[Joe_0206]

should a 160+ year old method of calculating someone’s healthy weight still be relevant today?

Who attacks the validity of BMI? Mostly people who intend to keep on eating their unhealthy way and/or intend to remain sedentary.

If you are a successful weight lifter, OK, BMI is not for you. But go somewhere else and shut up. Don't tell the overeating couch potatoes that BMI is not a good measure. You are doing them no favors.

BMI has been around for 160 years (Has it?) because when used with a little discretion it is an excellent measure.

In the meantime look down at that pooch of a belly - there is the danger.

Before you are so quick to pounce, remember I was sharing an opinion. I am not most people. I may have an average name and be of average height, but I am anything but average. And besides - have you been looking at my pooch. How dare you.