Teeth Hurting

[HerdingDogRescuer]

Howdy

There has been a strange new phenomenon the past few days. My front teeth hurt. If I push on them with my lower teeth, they feel sore at the roots. I had a similar feeling when I had nasal surgery. Wasn't sure if that was related to being intubated or not. Last night it seemed like my jaw would close, slide forward and press on my front upper teeth and cause discomfort that woke me up. Has anyone experienced this? I am not sure if I am clenching my jaw, if the pressure is moving my jaw forward.....just stumped by the whole thing. It was enough to keep waking me up last night, among other things. Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks

HDR

[LSAT]

You indicate that you are using a nasal mask. Normally the bottom of the nasal mask rests between the bottom of the nose and the upper lip. If the mask is too tight it will push in on your upper teeth. Consider loosening the mask, or changing to a different mask. The mask pressure will not move your jaw forward.

[HerdingDogRescuer]

You indicate that you are using a nasal mask. Normally the bottom of the nasal mask rests between the bottom of the nose and the upper lip. If the mask is too tight it will push in on your upper teeth. Consider loosening the mask, or changing to a different mask. The mask pressure will not move your jaw forward.

Thanks. The mask is actually fairly loose. I had a horrible night last night with leaks and other issues including the teeth thing. It's just a conundrum as I have felt this before after nasal surgery. But I will be trying to adjust the mask again. I have the Whisp and have been going back and forth between the S/M and the large. The large is nice as the tip of my nose doesn't touch the outer edge of the mask like with S/M, but the Large leaks more when I am on my side, which is the majority of the time.

[Pugsy]

You might look at the Swift FX Nano cushion mask. Perhaps the strap placement on it will lessen the chance of any pressure being applied to the teeth.

[HerdingDogRescuer]

You might look at the Swift FX Nano cushion mask. Perhaps the strap placement on it will lessen the chance of any pressure being applied to the teeth.

When I was initially setup by the DME, I tried that headset, but with nasal pillows. Didn't care for the pillows. The Whisp nasal mask felt better. The DME said, I can change to whatever I want during this trial period. Maybe I'll try that.

[chunkyfrog]

Are you using the fabric frame or the clear silicone frame?
I found that the fabric frame failed to lift the cushion off my face nearly as well as the silicone.
I thought I would prefer the fabric frame, but can't even use it.
My first nasal mask was a Mirage Micro, which started moving my upper front teeth backward
when I pushed it down on my nose to avoid the sore it made there.
Sometimes the tech's don't know squat.

[Pugsy]

When I was initially setup by the DME, I tried that headset, but with nasal pillows. Didn't care for the pillows.

You might like the Nano cushion and the way the straps work they would lessen the pressure on the lower edge of the cushion which might be part of the pressure on the teeth thing.
Some people's teeth are just more sensitive to the least little pressure than others.
I have tried both the Nano and the Wisp. I prefer the headgear of the Nano but then I was a Swift FX nasal pillow user for years.
The Wisp applied a little more pressure to my face and nose in general (which caused me some nasal congestion issues) despite having it quite loose and the Nano did not. So I was able to successfully use the Nano when I tried it but was unsuccessful with the Wisp due to the congestion. It's like any other mask though...comes with the YMMV sticker but certainly worth a try while you can utilize DME swapping allowance at no cost to you. You can always go back to something else if it doesn't work out.

I don't know if the difference in headgear will resolve the teeth discomfort issues or not but I think the Nano cushion is worth a try.
In time most of that tooth discomfort should fade away...sort of like the tooth discomfort I had with my Tap Pap initially. It was pretty significant for a couple of weeks but faded away and now zero discomfort from the mouth guard.

[HerdingDogRescuer]

This is great info. Got a call into the DME right now to see what the options are. I have no lip discomfort at all, just with the teeth. Last night the lower teeth hurt too, which made me think of the jaw clench thing. I had a horrible night last night, by far the worst yet. Every little thing was waking me up, my nose itched constantly, the air was too cold or too hot, the large mask leaked, the S/M mask migrates up and the tip/bottom of my nose kept touching the inside of the hard plastic mask. I could not get comfortable and got about a total of 2 hrs of sleep I think. Will try to explore mask options.

I am using the fabric for the Wisp. (Spelled right this time) . I have a rather small nose and a huge noggin. Kinda makes fitting difficult. The Wisp seems to be either pressing in on the bottom or the top. Can't find the balance there.

[Todzo]

Howdy

There has been a strange new phenomenon the past few days. My front teeth hurt. If I push on them with my lower teeth, they feel sore at the roots. I had a similar feeling when I had nasal surgery. Wasn't sure if that was related to being intubated or not. Last night it seemed like my jaw would close, slide forward and press on my front upper teeth and cause discomfort that woke me up. Has anyone experienced this? I am not sure if I am clenching my jaw, if the pressure is moving my jaw forward.....just stumped by the whole thing. It was enough to keep waking me up last night, among other things. Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks

HDR

Try eating Kimchi or Yogurt (plain, no growth hormones, no fat processing, strained is fine).

I will often do this at night after brushing before bed. It can help from a microbial standpoint.

Other than that reduce stress, exercise, try to get the tendency to over breath under control. The thing is that highe respiratory control system gain results in over breathing, which changes blood chemistry, which reduces circulation and metabolism, which makes things like teeth and thier root systems work less well and be more vulnerable to infection and other disease processes.

[chunkyfrog]

There is always the possibility that a sinus infection may manifest in this region.
If the area feels overly warm, good idea to call your doctor.
A probiotic diet may not hurt, but would not be a good treatment IMHO.

[Loreena]

Try Ultimate Flora, 50 Billion, by far the best probiotic, IMHO. If I run out and don't have a backup (pun intended), I notice it immediately. http://www.amazon.com/Renew-Life-Ultima ... +probiotic


Also, try the Pilairo. I have literally tried every nasal mask and nasal pillow mask out there to no avail. (My printer is run ragged with printing out return labels.) My face must be really weird, 'cause I'm just amazed that anyone can use anything but the Pilairo to work. Everything leaks! (but the Pilairo for me)

[HerdingDogRescuer]

Try Ultimate Flora, 50 Billion, by far the best probiotic, IMHO. If I run out and don't have a backup (pun intended), I notice it immediately. http://www.amazon.com/Renew-Life-Ultima ... +probiotic


Also, try the Pilairo. I have literally tried every nasal mask and nasal pillow mask out there to no avail. (My printer is run ragged with printing out return labels.) My face must be really weird, 'cause I'm just amazed that anyone can anything but the Pilairo to work. Everything leaks! (but the Pilairo for me)

One size fits most would definitely not work for me. I have a small nose and a big head. My nares are small and having all that pressure pushed right into my nose is not really and option.

[HerdingDogRescuer]

Howdy

There has been a strange new phenomenon the past few days. My front teeth hurt. If I push on them with my lower teeth, they feel sore at the roots. I had a similar feeling when I had nasal surgery. Wasn't sure if that was related to being intubated or not. Last night it seemed like my jaw would close, slide forward and press on my front upper teeth and cause discomfort that woke me up. Has anyone experienced this? I am not sure if I am clenching my jaw, if the pressure is moving my jaw forward.....just stumped by the whole thing. It was enough to keep waking me up last night, among other things. Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks

HDR

Try eating Kimchi or Yogurt (plain, no growth hormones, no fat processing, strained is fine).

I will often do this at night after brushing before bed. It can help from a microbial standpoint.

Other than that reduce stress, exercise, try to get the tendency to over breath under control. The thing is that highe respiratory control system gain results in over breathing, which changes blood chemistry, which reduces circulation and metabolism, which makes things like teeth and thier root systems work less well and be more vulnerable to infection and other disease processes.

So this high gain thing has me a bit confused. From what I've read, other than weight loss, there really is no way to control it. Been trying to get over-breathing under control, but when one is sleeping, it's impossible.

[Todzo]

Howdy

There has been a strange new phenomenon the past few days. My front teeth hurt. If I push on them with my lower teeth, they feel sore at the roots. I had a similar feeling when I had nasal surgery. Wasn't sure if that was related to being intubated or not. Last night it seemed like my jaw would close, slide forward and press on my front upper teeth and cause discomfort that woke me up. Has anyone experienced this? I am not sure if I am clenching my jaw, if the pressure is moving my jaw forward.....just stumped by the whole thing. It was enough to keep waking me up last night, among other things. Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks

HDR

Try eating Kimchi or Yogurt (plain, no growth hormones, no fat processing, strained is fine).

I will often do this at night after brushing before bed. It can help from a microbial standpoint.

Other than that reduce stress, exercise, try to get the tendency to over breath under control. The thing is that highe respiratory control system gain results in over breathing, which changes blood chemistry, which reduces circulation and metabolism, which makes things like teeth and thier root systems work less well and be more vulnerable to infection and other disease processes.

So this high gain thing has me a bit confused. From what I've read, other than weight loss, there really is no way to control it. Been trying to get over-breathing under control, but when one is sleeping, it's impossible.

It was post traumatic stress that changed how my therapy worked for me and originally caused me to do research into the issues regarding high respiratory control system gain. Indeed, I found that my “gain” became so high during the day that I would be hyperventilating! I was glad to discover eucapnic breathing but was concerned that you could go too far so decided to find the lowest heart rates controlling breathing and along the way found that SpO2 would get me close to those and makes a great way to manage the issue. I also learned a whole lot of other physiological symptoms that I now use most of the time to help keep my breathing eucapnic.

A note about research into eucapnic breathing here. I have been able to find little that actually looks at how well it works, mostly associated with asthma. They most often found a modest positive effect. Which was no surprise to me since I could see that the “dose” they were using was also very modest. To me eucapnic breathing is a way of life as martial arts or music would be to anyone highly involved.

Frankly I think that better breathing (and it's associated better cell metabolism) during the day does help with breathing at night. But this takes time and so continuing research turned up EERS[1] and Dynamic CO2 therapy[2]. A DME rep in about 2009 told me that Dynamic CO2 therapy was available in Europe. My doctor did not mind me using a bit of EERS since the basic physiology makes sense and likely because the amount that I use is conservative.

I think that breathing reflexes are directly related to circulation. I have noticed that I did better when we changed my BP med from a beta blocker (slows the heart so would lessen circulation) to an alpha blocker (reduces blood pressure by opening up circulation). I have often noticed that during the flush after eating a mini-meal and taking some pure niacin it becomes very easy and natural to maintain eucapnic levels. If I wake up breathing at a higher level than I should be eucapnic breathing techniques will be hard to do at first but as the blood goes back into my feet I also note that the crazy urge to breath too much also recedes, evaporates, leaves, and is replaced by a marvelous calm. And so it becomes natural to breath at levels appropriate for being at rest and in bed.

So then perhaps it is no wonder that I have noted that exercise seems to help with this. I suppose you would expect that with aerobic exercise and I believe I have noted that a bit of 85% of maximum heart rate interval training helps even more.

I often wonder if resistance training might even help with keeping the tongue muscles working well. It certainly provokes circulatory enhancement as I see from the veins popping up in my arms and legs.

Dr. Stasha Gominak describes in her YouTubes how many of the areas of the brain which control breathing are very sensitive to D3 levels. Those who are working with the D3 hormone (A.K.A. Vitamin D3) (e.g. Dr. Stasha Gominak, Michael F. Holick, Ph.D., M.D., Vitamin D Council) seem to be finding that the very low side of the “normal” range of 30-100 ng/L produces a range of symptoms including OSA, pain, and infection. All believe that a level lower than 50 ng/mL is not good and Dr. Stasha Gominak recommends 60-80 ng/mL for good health.

Metabolic health I now read as defined as having every cell in the body functioning well. So my next years will be spent with dietitians, personal trainers, and everyone else who I believe can help my body as a system work better.


[1]: Gilmartin G, McGeehan B, Vigneault K, Daly RW, Manento M, Weiss JW, Thomas RJ.
Treatment of positive airway pressure treatment-associated respiratory instability with enhanced expiratory rebreathing space (EERS).
Source: J Clin Sleep Med. 2010 Dec 15;6(6):529-38. Division of Pulmonary, Critical Care and Sleep Medicine, Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center, Boston, MA, USA.
Link: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21206741

[2]: Dynamic CO2 therapy in periodic breathing: a modeling study to determine optimal timing and dosage regimes
Yoseph Mebrate, Keith Willson, Charlotte H. Manisty, Resham Baruah, Jamil Mayet, Alun D. Hughes, Kim H. Parker and Darrel P. Francis
J Appl Physiol 107:696-706, 2009. First published 23 July 2009; doi: 10.1152/japplphysiol.90308.2008
Link: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19628721

Note: for me eucapnic breathing = Clear nose, warm hands, warm feet, better concentration.

[HerdingDogRescuer]

Hey Todzo,

Thanks so much for that reply. So much information and I really appreciate your candidness about your current issues you are dealing with. It certainly appears that you have gone to great lengths to work through this.

I have looked into the high gain topic. As an aside, I think that terminology is confusing. I am a musician and when I hear high gain, the first thing I think about is my high gain Mesa Boogie Mark IV guitar amplifier. That bad boy has gobs of gain and in that world, gain is good.

It's a lot to get your head around and I am working to understand. As a respiratory therapist, I am usually aware of my breathing and my health as a whole. During the day, I think my breathing is quite normal. I have a desk job and most likely tend to shallower breathing, but I exercise, train my dogs and sing and play guitar a lot, so I do get some good breathing in. I focus on my breathing when drifting off to sleep a lot to help relax and fall asleep quicker.

I think my main issue is weight. I am heavier than I'd like to be. A lot of that is that I dont exercise enough. My job is time consuming and stressful at times. A lot of the stress is my personality. Am working on that as well. I am actually happy to be finally diagnosed with a sllep disorder as now I can get treatment. Better sleep will help me get better rest, lower stress and thus a better mindset during the day. I am lucky in that I live in a wonderful rural area. I can walk out my door and be in the forest. I hike with my dogs a lot and that is the primary means of exercise. But, it's not enough. I've got a set of rollers for my road bike that I keep in my office. I tend to go overboard with my job and not leave the computer as their is always something to be doing. I need to step away and use my rollers for short rides throughout the day. I tend to be a perfectionist and if I can't do something to the n'th degree I talk myself out of even trying. So, where I am at now is, any little bit will help. Time to be more active in all that I do. Structure my day and make time for exercise. My wife and I have already discussed diet. I love to cook and therefore have a love affair with food. I don't have an eating disorder, but could be smarter with my diet.

Anyway, this sleep experience has taught me much and mostly, that I am not an indestructible youth anymore. I need to take care of myself. I feel blessed to have figured this out before things got any worse. I look forward to the road ahead and setting stronger and healthier. I've already seen benefits of the APAP in that I have better concentration and my outlook has improved.

Thanks again Todoz.

HDR