anyone know about hypopompic hallucination?

[chdurie2]

hi guys:

today when at the sleep doc, he asked me if i ever am still dreaming for a few seconds after waking up. I was like, how does he know? I looked it up on the web and found that it's called hypopompic hallucination, and it's related to sleep paralysis and narcolepsy, although any of them can occur independently. There was very little on it. I was just curious if anyone knew a little bit more about it - it happens to me sometimes, and I find it frightening. Weirdly enough, it seems to happen most often with the F&P 431, although perhaps I'm just more aware of it then because it's a harder mask to pull off than others.

No biggie, just curious about what it meant.

caroline

[Stentor]

There's some information on Wikipedia, under "Hypnagogia", which you may have seen already. Something I didn't know: apparently it can be a sign of sleep disorders.

I've had hypnopompic hallucinations a few times a year since childhood, usually accompanied by sleep paralysis. I won't go into details except to say that if I had been of a less sceptical bent, I would have convinced myself I was the subject of hauntings and alien visitations. The hallucinations seem very real, very physical and totally terrifying.

There's a particular waking hallucination I had about once a week for a couple of years after my first bout of pneumonia: giant spiders cimbing the walls. You don't want that one.

I'm glad to say I haven't had any occurrences at all since I began CPAP therapy 5 - 6 weeks ago. Rather the reverse: when I've had a good sleep, I've enjoyed waking slowly, taking my time, instead of being panicked awake. It's been a wonderfully satisfying experience.

Pure speculation: perhaps the stimulation of the adrenal system, from continual apneas, contributes to the feeling of panic.

[Wulfman]

Caroline,

For a couple of years prior to being diagnosed with OSA, I was beginning to think that I had developed Narcolepsy......similar symptoms to some degree.

http://www.sleepdisorderchannel.com/narcolepsy/

There are many sources of information on the Internet. The hallucinations are linked with narcolepsy and cataplexy.

Best wishes,

Den

[chdurie2]

den:

thanks for the link. that's what i thought.

i'm not in "narcolepsy denial", at least i don't think. the extent of it is that sometimes when i wake, for a few seconds, the dream is so vivid i think i'm in it. it doesn't involve spiders or aliens or anything. I just think, boy, that seemed real, and i might even think as if i'm still in the dream for maybe 30 seconds.

yes, this doc thinks i'm borderline narcoleptic. i don't fall asleep in the middle of conversations or while eating or think i'll fall asleep while driving. sometimes it hits me that i MUST sleep, but i'm always in situations where, for better or worse, i can sleep.

he also asked me whether i ever had muscle weakness. a couple of times this year when i was in final exams, after being up all nite or at least half the nite studying, my left hand (i'm a rightie) would start to twitch weirdly and i could not easily put my fingers right--they were in spasm. is this the same thing, or are we talking about something else? so i told him yes, when i was extremely tired. he didn't want me to elaborate to his questions, because he wanted his answers rather than my rambling. but it doesn't happen when i'm not sleep deprived by anyone's definition.

so since you have had symptoms, are we talking the same thing?

thanks.

caroline

[Wulfman]

Caroline,

During the time that I was researching narcolepsy, I wasn't aware of OSA. Consequently, when the subject of sleep apnea came up, I had to do a lot of reading about it on the Internet.
My major problem was being in front of a computer screen. After an hour or two, my head would drop and as I was drifting off, it was like I was dreaming (hallucinations) and still being (sort of) awake at the same time. Nothing horrible or scary.....just kind of a dream-like state.
I've been trying to think back.....and I think I did have some muscle twitching in my hand(s)......kind of like an eye twitch. Probably just a case of my body being too tired, I'm thinking. I don't recall it happening since I've been on CPAP.
I THINK that there are enough similarities in the symptoms of OSA and narcolepsy/cateplexy that there can be some difficulty in diagnosing them.
I also think there are too many doctors that really aren't knowledgeable enough about OSA (or CSA)......and overlook it as THE problem.

Don't know if that's been much help.....

Best wishes,

Den

[krousseau]

There are hypnagogic and hypnopompnic hallucinations. The former occur in the process of falling asleep and the later during awakening.

[Wulfman]

Thanks, Kay.

Den

[chdurie2]

yes, thanks kay.

[chdurie2]

den:

you mean that perhaps this doc thinks i major in daytime sleepiness/narcolepsy and minor in apnea, when really i major in apnea and minor in daytime sleepiness/narcolepsy?

he'll see. when we do that sleep test coming up, i think he'll see that after 4+ months on cpap, my sleep is real different, not perfect or even great, but substantially different. i don't think i will sleep forever. i don't think they'll have any trouble waking me up or keeping me awake for the daytime portion of the test. i'll probably still be snoring. the pmls probably will be less. and i'll probably need a pressure adjustment.

he certainly acknowledged that he was using cpap to treat excessive daytime sleepiness/narcolepsy. but you mean that even though my apnea numbers are small, it is the REAL problem?

caroline

[GoofyUT]

See now, all these years I thought that hypnopompic hallucinations were the ravings of Democratic politicians who (psychotically) thought up the CRAZY notion that they weren't as POMPOUS as their Republican counter-parts. Hence the name , HYPNO POMPIC. But then I realized that what I understood that disorder to be was actually called HYPO-POMPIC hallucinations, not HYPNOpompic. Sorry for the confusion.

Chuck

[chdurie2]

Thanks, Chuck. I'm really glad we all understand that. That, too, has been bothering me for years. As long as we're clarifying here, what's with the legal disclaimer attached to all your posts? cute... warrantying information/opinions? I get what you mean. You can attach anything you want to your posts.

caroline

[GoofyUT]

Oh just something stupid that some other guy had tacked on to his post, that seemed like a good idea at the time. So, I copied it (imitation IS the fondest form of flattery after all).

That's all it is. Nothing more.

[chdurie2]

chuck--

it's just that the person who wrote it obviously was not a lawyer. If you ever have to use it for real, don't be surprised if the judge starts laughing, or suppresses a laugh because he/she recognizes the intention of what you mean. for a non-law person, it works. on the other hand, if i wrote that on a law exam, i would flunk the course. so it's funny to me. sorry, i just had to rib you about that.

caroline

[kteague]

Athough my sleep studies did not show me to reach REM sleep during naps (looking for narcolepsy), when I doze off at my computer, etc. I will awaken myself by saying something from a dream out loud. In that semi-wake state I'm aware it's a dream and shouldn't have said it out load.

My docs always asked if I ever collapsed or fell down when emotional, and I always answered No. Then I realized from my readings that episodes I was having were in the same family. I would be in limbo somewhere between awake and sleep, frozen in a position, often jaw stuck (sometimes open, sometimes closed) and hand on computer mouse in same position as when spell started. Several times when I came around I was aware of pain, and my pointed tooth (forget what it's called - maybe incisor) would have pierced the side of my tongue, but I could not open my jaw to release it for several seconds. In other spells, my head would suddenly flop forward , chin hitting chest so hard my teeth chattered. Then my shoulders would slump forcefully over. Then my whole upper body would collapse on my desk and I would not be able to move, sometimes for several minutes. That's what weakness looked like for me.
Kathy

[chdurie2]

kteague--

i'm no sleep doc, but that sounds like beyond hypnopompic hallucinations--that sounds like sleep cataplexy. i have no idea what they do for it, but you might want to tell your sleep doc.

caroline