more tired than before CPAP

[NightSky]

OK, its been three weeks. Why am I more tired now than before I started CPAP? How do I figure this out?

I guess I should get some software to read my machine's card. Does anyone have a .deb for the linux version of SleepyHead that goes with my machine?

How long does it take one's circadian rhythm to re-stabilize? I feel like mine is in chaos now.

[2 B Sleeping Soundly]

Depending how long you have had your Sleep Apnea untreated or the even level of severity for your particular case, it could take many months, even years to help to undue or lessen the damage that has been done to your body and sleep architecture. The big misnomer is that PAP therapy is some kind of magic bullet that immediately or within a few weeks will turn you into a new person, full of energy, health, and vitality. Successful PAP treatment can be profound in it's effect for most of us, but the timeline to achieve it can vary from person to person with no real rhyme or reason. For some, no profound change ever happens, but the therapy can still be of benefit in that it at least can help slow the damage being done by untreated Sleep Apnea, and that in my opinion is better than giving up and letting SA run rampant doing it's slow, methodical damage.

[RandyJ]

OK, its been three weeks. Why am I more tired now than before I started CPAP? How do I figure this out?

I guess I should get some software to read my machine's card. Does anyone have a .deb for the linux version of SleepyHead that goes with my machine?

How long does it take one's circadian rhythm to re-stabilize? I feel like mine is in chaos now.

Download Linux version here: http://sourceforge.net/projects/sleepyh ... ses/Linux/

I am assuming that the Linux version supports the series 60 machines but am not sure.

You can post screenshots here so that members can offer help...

[jaybeem]

I sympathize. I have been on CPAP a month. I can't say I am more tired, as I felt like the walking dead before CPAP. But I am still very tired.

But all this time it has really helped to be able to look at the data. My numbers were so good in the beginning, and CPAPtalk experts could see nothing that would explain why I was awakening every two hours. That forced me to keep looking for a reason (severe dry eyes) for the two hour cycles. After my eyes improved, the data pointed to leaks causing fragmented sleep. Hence, a new mask.

And with the new mask it has been reassuring to look at the data and see that...in spite of still being tired...I AM getting some quality sleep.

I hope you can get appropriate software. It helps to look and to have the CPAPtalk experts look for poor sleep quality explanations. Hang in there.

[Todzo]

OK, its been three weeks. Why am I more tired now than before I started CPAP? How do I figure this out?

I guess I should get some software to read my machine's card. Does anyone have a .deb for the linux version of SleepyHead that goes with my machine?

How long does it take one's circadian rhythm to re-stabilize? I feel like mine is in chaos now.

I am glad to hear you are working toward establishing feedback using the CPAP data. That is essential.

Right now you can spend quality time with the machine during the day. Some of the time should be in your bed learning to breath quietly with the machine. Some time when you are in bed and quiet note how much air you are using. You should not need more than that with the machine. The pressure of the machine will make it easy to breath more than you should. So take some time to learn to breath quietly with the machine during the daytime.

Also while in bed it is a good time to check the mask fit in all the usual positions - and while transitioning to those positions. Time to make notes on hose management as well.

Part of the time should be with some light distraction. A book, light TV, music, radio. Time using the machine while awake, I think, tends to generate good breathing reflexes while breathing with the pressure.

You might also raise the head of your bed a few inches.

[BlackSpinner]

It can take your brain up to a month to trust this thing on your face and allow you to sleep deeply. You also need to see your data to see if everything is working well and you are not losing therapy through leaks.

[Vajrabell]

I know exactly how you feel. I started about a year ago last July and for maybe 6 weeks I felt much worse--more symptoms, falling asleep during the day (when I hadn't been) and was wondering what was going on. I don't think anyone really knows why this is--why when you start getting a little better quality sleep you feel worse, but it is a widely reported and experienced phenomena. But it does pass. And then things do start to change. Hang in there. This is not an easy trip but it does start to work after a while. I also found that for a long time my numbers hovered around 9 and then, for not apparent reason began to drop. It's a process.
vajrabell

[cobra4x4]

It is quite normal around the 1 month mark to feel worse than before you started on cpap.

It has a lot to do with your body adjusting to the new routine (Sleep) and possibly your body healing itself as that usually happens during REM sleep stage.

Again this is quite normal and quite often only lasts a couple of weeks although everyone is different and there have been members who have had this feeling last a lot longer. Just keep at it and you'll start noticing slight improvements over time.

[Pugsy]

How many hours of sleep are you averaging each night?
Are those hours of sleep fragmented...wake up often for any reason...trouble going to sleep and/or staying asleep?
Taking any meds?
What is the AHI showing on the machine?

Get the software or at least get the information that is available off the LCD screen on your machine.
Right now we have no idea if the AHI is optimal or if leaks are maybe a problem or if the whole therapy situation is even optimal.
If your therapy is not optimal for some reason....there isn't any amount of time that is going to fix that.

[NightSky]

Thanks everyone for your input and encouragement. It helps to know that my situation isn't unusual.

The current linux version of sleepyhead 9.2.something and so it doesn't support my machine, if I understand correctly. I think I will start a new thread asking specifically for help with software... I'll call it "Please help me with software"

The screen info on my machine says that my AHI stays around 1.0, and there are no large leaks. I am averaging around 11 hours of sleep a night. I have typically woken up once a night (that I can remember) in the early morning briefly and usually noted a small leak.

I am mostly a side sleeper, but occasionally end up on my back. I am thinking to try to switch from Swift FX to Wisp mask as Jaybeem suggests, but I'm waiting for my DME to call me back about that so I am stuck with the Swift FX for the moment.

As far as medicine I take Prozac, SAM-e, and 5-htp for depression. (I have been wondering recently how much of my depression really comes from apnea messing me up though. I don't know for sure, but I have probably had this for decades. I'm 44 now and it seems like I have been tired since I was a teenager.) I have also been taking a small dose of melatonin to help me fall asleep with this new equipment on me.

[Pugsy]

I am sorry but I am no help with the software issues. I only have experience with Windows software.

Your AHI is good...no large leaks...so that is good.
11 hours of sleep...excessive I would think and makes me wonder why or is some of it meds related. Most people don't/can't sleep 11 hours every night.

While we don't expect everyone to feel the overnight miracle with cpap therapy we sure don't expect someone to say that they actually feel worse but for some people that seems to be what they say.

I don't have time to research your meds right now but I think every one of them has an affect on how a person feels during the next day...even melatonin.

Prozac is known culprit.
http://www.webmd.com/drugs/drug-6997-Pr ... genumber=6

Some meds affect sleep architecture and % of time in each sleep stage...that will mess with how we feel the next day.

You say you are more tired now during the day than before cpap...is it tired and in general fatigue or is it tired and in drowsy and nodding off all day?

Research all of the known side effects to your meds to educate yourself on the possibility that they may be impacting how you feel.
Are meds totally to blame? Probably not but it is always good to know all the potential side effects so that you can understand what might be happening.
There's lots of stuff that impacts how we feel the next day...not just AHI and not just meds but often lots of little things that add up together.
Probably should also talk to your doctor about things (your meds, dosage and sleeping hours and how you feel)...it may just be that you need more time but if someone is actually feeling a lot worse on cpap therapy and the therapy itself is looking decent (on paper anyway) then it never hurts to start doing some detective work to maybe isolate some other possible causes for not feeling so great.
You have no choice but to continue the therapy and "give it time" but while you are "giving it time" you might as well start looking for other contributing factors to not feeling so great.
The cpap machine is designed to fix mainly 1 thing....sleep apnea events. If someone has other issues going on that impacts how a person feels that isn't directly related to sleep apnea then the machine doesn't do such a good job at fixing those other things that aren't related to sleep apnea.

We tend to put all our problems in the sleep apnea basket and expect the cpap machine to fix everything but it can only fix the sleep apnea things. I wish it were that simple but it just isn't.

[49er]

Thanks everyone for your input and encouragement. It helps to know that my situation isn't unusual.

The current linux version of sleepyhead 9.2.something and so it doesn't support my machine, if I understand correctly. I think I will start a new thread asking specifically for help with software... I'll call it "Please help me with software"

The screen info on my machine says that my AHI stays around 1.0, and there are no large leaks. I am averaging around 11 hours of sleep a night. I have typically woken up once a night (that I can remember) in the early morning briefly and usually noted a small leak.

I am mostly a side sleeper, but occasionally end up on my back. I am thinking to try to switch from Swift FX to Wisp mask as Jaybeem suggests, but I'm waiting for my DME to call me back about that so I am stuck with the Swift FX for the moment.

As far as medicine I take Prozac, SAM-e, and 5-htp for depression. (I have been wondering recently how much of my depression really comes from apnea messing me up though. I don't know for sure, but I have probably had this for decades. I'm 44 now and it seems like I have been tired since I was a teenager.) I have also been taking a small dose of melatonin to help me fall asleep with this new equipment on me.

Hi NightSky,

Could your med combination be making you tired? Also, I would be very concerned that the combination you are taking has a great danger of leading to serotonin syndrome because all the items affects the body's level of serotonin.

Please check with your doctor. Even if he/she approved this, I would still be very very careful.

49er

PS - As an FYI, I was on a cocktail of psych meds for 15 years which I think was due to depression from undiagnosed apnea which like you, I feel I have had since I was a teenager.

[NightSky]

Regarding 11 hours of sleep: Yeah I know I'm a horrible slob. Trying to get better though. I do not remember my original sleep study AHI but they told me it was in the moderate range. I guess my body is trying hard to get rested even though it isn't getting good sleep.

Is it my meds that are making me tired? It may be that they are extending my natural sleep time. I was thinking to get off of maybe the SAM-e and 5-HTP eventually (it isn't cheap), but I am trying to only change one thing at a time and right now it is all about CPAP. Prior to CPAP, I did not really feel TIRED like I have recently. I felt "out of it", spacey, lacking energy, lacking attentional ability, not getting anything done, disorganized, with dark circles under my eyes. But after starting CPAP I have sometimes felt like "I want to crawl back into bed NOW".

Regarding serotonin syndrome, yeah it is a very fair warning, but I've been on this stuff steady for several years now, so I haven't had that happen yet. Good point though.

Pugsy came through again (in my other thread) and got me a working Mac SleepyHead build so I'll look at that tomorrow.

[NightSky]

Could your med combination be making you tired? Also, I would be very concerned that the combination you are taking has a great danger of leading to serotonin syndrome because all the items affects the body's level of serotonin.

Please check with your doctor. Even if he/she approved this, I would still be very very careful.

49er

PS - As an FYI, I was on a cocktail of psych meds for 15 years which I think was due to depression from undiagnosed apnea which like you, I feel I have had since I was a teenager.

I have been thinking this over and now that I am more aware of the relationship between serotonin and various stages of sleep I see that this is important. I will talk to my doctor about it.

It is also good to hear from others who experienced something like what I have as I feel less alone and that someone understands what this is like.

[NightSky]

Hi again!

For the past several days, I have been feeling better. I don't feel so tired anymore. I just wanted to follow up and tell you all. Beyond not feeling so tired, I think I feel other slight signs of improvement. I feel as though it is easier to clean stuff up around the house, and I felt as though my vision changed slightly as I was driving, like I was seeing a bit more detail of what was around me. I don't know how much this might be placebo effect, but at least I don't feel "more tired" anymore!

I had my respiratory therapist check out my CPAP data on my SD card, and she said that I looked good with no leaks worth mentioning. Last night I switched to the Wisp, but I think that went well too.

Anyways, thanks for telling me that what I was feeling was normal enough. It helped me keep at it.