Quickl Question

[stillo]

Hello all

I have restarted cpap and unfortunately for me i will have to return due to being unable to fall asleep with it, my question is i was asked by the specialist if i felt tired or Sleepy and i had to answer i was tired, it has been brought to my attention that unless i am sleepy i will not overcome this terrible insomnia that i have had for the last 5 years and i will be unable to have a good nights sleep.

How can i become sleepy? i cycle 10 miles per day i walk at least 3 miles per day in my job but i still do not feel sleepy, i can lay in bed and not be able to go to sleep i can stay awake for 60 plus hours and still not be able to sleep, can anyone offer any advise or help, please be aware that in the uk getting sleeping meds is like asking for illegal drugs absolutely no chance

Stillo

[Pugsy]

Can you fall asleep if you don't have the mask on?
You might read this
http://adventures-in-hosehead-land.blog ... er_19.html
I don't know how much will help but it might help to know you aren't alone.

The machine can't fix insomnia if the insomnia is not caused solely by sleep apnea and unfortunately the mask and machine can make insomnia worse.

Natural sleep aids? Melatonin? Benadryl (diphendyramine) and there is another that I can't think of at the moment that is similar.

[imfletch]

Develop a nightly ritual.
Do NO sit and read in bed or watch TV. This only trains your brain to think bed is a place to stay stimulated. (This is not a problem for most people, they can still read, etc. but those with problems falling asleep need to make the bedroom a sanctuary of sleep).
Go to bed at the same time each night.
Don't drink coffee, tea, soda or anything with caffeine.
Do you have an alarm clock that can generate "white noise"? Consider getting one.
If you are not asleep within 30 mins of laying down... get up, go into another room and do something. Come back and try again in an hour. (Laying there, worrying about the fact you are getting no sleep only makes matters worse)

[quietmorning]

Are you taking any medications in addition to your sleep therapy? (Decongestants or beta blockers for example)

How long do you sleep after you've been awake for thirty hours?

Do you feel sleepy, then?

[stillo]

Hi all

Thanks for your replies it's very much appreciated,in answer to all questions i am not taking any medication that can or has caused any problems, so i am told, i have developed good sleep hygiene and i still cannot sleep, and most importantly Pugsy i think you have hit the nail on the head, Cpap therapy for me is causing insomnia if and when i do manage to fall asleep as soon as the pressure increases on the Cpap my heart rate nearly doubles and it is as if i have had a rush of adrenaline in my sleep which then wakes me up and keeps me awake.

Quitemorning in answer to your question after 30 hours or more of being awake i will sleep for about 45-60 minutes before i wake up this will continue all night for around 6-7 hours and i will be awake for 5-10 minutes each and every time, surprisingly i still am not sleepy although during the day i have relentless fatigue, im sure i will conquer it some day thank you all for taking the time to respond

Stillo

[quietmorning]

Hi all

Thanks for your replies it's very much appreciated,in answer to all questions i am not taking any medication that can or has caused any problems, so i am told, i have developed good sleep hygiene and i still cannot sleep, and most importantly Pugsy i think you have hit the nail on the head, Cpap therapy for me is causing insomnia if and when i do manage to fall asleep as soon as the pressure increases on the Cpap my heart rate nearly doubles and it is as if i have had a rush of adrenaline in my sleep which then wakes me up and keeps me awake.

Quitemorning in answer to your question after 30 hours or more of being awake i will sleep for about 45-60 minutes before i wake up this will continue all night for around 6-7 hours and i will be awake for 5-10 minutes each and every time, surprisingly i still am not sleepy although during the day i have relentless fatigue, im sure i will conquer it some day thank you all for taking the time to respond

Stillo

Wow. I'm curious to see what your data looks like right as the pressure is going up. I wonder if you're having centrals. I don't know enough about it to give any thing other than curiosity, here, but maybe someone will chime in. Can you post any of your previous data?

[Pugsy]

Pressure setting(s) on the machine? Using Ramp?

[chunkyfrog]

Your pressure is wide open; I wouldn't sleep well either if mine were set that way.
I took my actual 95% pressure of the display, and set the pressure range for 2 cm above and 2 cm below it;
this eliminated a lot of waking up due to runaway high pressure spikes.

[stillo]

Hello again

Yes the pressure settings are wide open 4-20 i don't think there is a ramp but we are not allowed to change them the NHS would have a complete meltdown if we as much as touched any setting at all, we would be discharged back to our General practitioner never to be offered cpap again

Stillo

[Pugsy]

Let's at least look at the software reports to see if the pressure is going wild with the increases. Just because it can go to 20 doesn't mean it automatically does.
Maybe knowing an explanation as to what might be a factor in the insomnia might allow the brain to not get so ticked off about it and let you sleep better.
Just because you look doesn't mean you have to change anything.

[stillo]

Hello again

Unfortunately i am unable to offer reports i don't have the necessary Hardware yet to obtain them, i can however tell you that i cannot keep the mask on for more than 45-60 minutes without it causing me severe discomfort due to my increased heart rate hence being unable to sleep for more than 45-60 Minutes at a time it takes me a good 30-40 Minutes to fall asleep sometimes so much longer so i only have cpap therapy for 5-20 minutes at all times every night, i have an appointment at the Hospital on the 21st of May where i am confident they will take the machine back due to the problems it is causing me. I have had a MAD mad once but that gave me Jaw problems so another is out of the question.

Once again thank you for you assistance it is very gratefully received

Stillo

[chunkyfrog]

Lovely little catch-22 they've got there! (that is so wrong--(no appeal process?))
I would get on your doctor's case, beg him to set the machine for a tighter range--
especially if you are waking up with the pressure very, very high.
Some of us don't breathe correctly for the "wide open" setting to work.

[NateS]

To: Stillo,

You will get more people reading your thread and offering advice, especially ones who have had your problem, if you change the subject in your original post to something specific, for example: "Can't sleep with CPAP on" instead of "Quicki Question."

Very few people read every thread, but pick and choose by Subject, unless they stay up reading on the forum during all sleepless hours every day and night!

Regards, Nate

[zoocrewphoto]

Hi all

Thanks for your replies it's very much appreciated,in answer to all questions i am not taking any medication that can or has caused any problems, so i am told, i have developed good sleep hygiene and i still cannot sleep, and most importantly Pugsy i think you have hit the nail on the head, Cpap therapy for me is causing insomnia if and when i do manage to fall asleep as soon as the pressure increases on the Cpap my heart rate nearly doubles and it is as if i have had a rush of adrenaline in my sleep which then wakes me up and keeps me awake.

Stillo

It is likely that the sleep apneas are causing the increase and heart rate and rush of adrenaline and the pressure is going up in response. The cause and effect are reversed.

Also, your equipment info says your pressure is set at 4-20. Not many people can sleep at 4. It is suffocating and makes it hard to breathe. Most people do better with at least 7. Also, if your pressure needs are higher, and your machine is set at 4-20, it takes too long for the pressure to get where it needs to be. So, the machine will detect that you are about to have apneas, slowly starts to increase, your apneas happen and the adrenaline is released, physically scaring you into staying awake, and then your pressure catches up, too late.

You really need to have a better range set on your machine.

[NateS]

Also, your equipment info says your pressure is set at 4-20. Not many people can sleep at 4. It is suffocating and makes it hard to breathe. Most people do better with at least 7. Also, if your pressure needs are higher, and your machine is set at 4-20, it takes too long for the pressure to get where it needs to be. So, the machine will detect that you are about to have apneas, slowly starts to increase, your apneas happen and the adrenaline is released, physically scaring you into staying awake, and then your pressure catches up, too late.

You really need to have a better range set on your machine.

Amen to that! I was a total wreck for the 3 days and nights mine was set on 4! It felt like my machine was trying to kill me!

Regards, Nate