Trying to reset cpap back to autopap...may need instructions

[Julie]

For me, the problems being faced here may not respond to things like Qi-gong because all the energy in the world and positive thinking and acupressure, etc. are not the type of modalities that help mechanical problems, which it seems are the major source of trouble. Yes Q-g etc. are great for ongoing mental and physical conditioning, but also need help to deal with mechanical issues, so I wouldn't drop the medical fixes but augment them with alternatives if you can. Not everything is a nail even if you have a great hammer.

[Seekinganswers]

Sorry I am late to the party here. I had some fires to put out yesterday.

Lots going on...let's start with the basics.
What machine is being used? What settings on the machine for sure?
Is this a Phillips Respironics machine? If so look on the bottom of the blower unit for a 3 digit model number. Tell us what it is and we can figure out which machine.
It helps us if we know what is for sure being used.
Ramp....at 4 cm that's a recipe for disaster.

I totally understand the not being able to breathe through the nose thing. When it happens to me it doesn't matter if I can breathe through my mouth or not...my body says "hey, you can't breathe through your nose...you are going to be MISERABLE till you fix the nose" Just because we can breathe through the mouth and use a full mask mask to get the cpap pressure therapy...doesn't mean the brain or body will cooperate.

There's a little experiment I ask that you have your husband do...ask him to take his fingers and press on the sides of the bridge of the nose up by where the turbinates are...sort of where the mask rests. Ask him to apply pressure that approximates the pressure from the mask.9 Ask him if the pressure causes any difficulty with air movement...congestion, etc.
Ask him to give it about 10 minutes if he can stand the boredom.
Main thing...does the pressure cause congestion or difficulty breathing through the nose?

So 2 things right now for me...Let's figure out which machine is being used and the nasal pressure with fingers test.
That's all I need for right now.
Oh..make that 3 things...what is the humidity level set at now on the machine?

i hear your the guru here!! Thanks for responding. it is 11;15 p.m. and i'm just now getting home and online. hubby is sleeping right now with machine so i don't dare start snooping around for a model number on the machine. i will get that info in the morning when he gets up. i do know it is a BI pap machine which blow at 4cm until he has an apnea event, then it ramps up to a max of 12 if needed to push him into taking a breath. i know he puts distilled water in it but not sure what the humidity is set at. Will check that as well. i did tell him last night that some folks suggest lowering the humidity level so i'm not sure if he did it or not. He has decided to run from the new surgery procedure doc wanted to do. We need to call and tell him tomorrow so they don't go to the trouble of getting it precerted through his insurance. Found out today from a person who works in another doc's office in that building that the 1 day in icu generally turns into 3-4 days in icu, then rather than 4-5 days inpatient, it's more like 2 weeks. So...he decided that would be suicide and not going to do it. he started using nasonex and doing his nasal rinse again since he hasn't done any of that in a couple months. tonight is his second night attempting the machine. 4.5 hours last night and woke up with it on his forehead. he shoves it off and doesn't know it so he's unsure why he does that. i'm hoping he will be able to wear it longer and longer.i'm becoming a very lonely wife with no affection going on...breaks my heart for him to treat me like a stranger in our home

[Seekinganswers]

Same situation here to some degree---

FULL FACE MASK

KEEP THE BEDROOM COLD AND USE HUMIDIFICATION

SLEEP ON HIS STOMACH OR SIDE

PUT A BOOK OR TWO UNDER THE BED FRONT TO RAISE UP PREVENTING GERD

KEEP A REGULAR SLEEPING PATTERN

EXCERCISE DAILY BY RUNNING< BIKING< WALKING

USE TESTOSTERONE SUPPLEMENTATION BY PILL FORM

CONSIDER SEPTUM SURGERY ONCE STABLIZED

GET TO THE CORRECT WEIGHT

he sleeps on his back if he can tolerate cpap
he has been riding his bike a lot lately
he is on Androgel
he has already had septum surgery back in october, worked ok for couple of months, now nose stopped back up most of the time..worse at night when he lays down
he isn't over weight at all ...he is 6' tall and only weighs 200 lbs. he does have huge tonsils and a larger than normal neck
he uses a full face mask as well

[Seekinganswers]

yes, i worked for surgeons as well...but they do consider conservative treatments first if at all possible. And you are right, the surgeon who did my husbands nasal surgery said it was a success...said he could drive a truck up there in his nose it is was so 'opened up' Well...tell him that when he is laying here and can't breathe through his nose enough to use his machine!! So over going to doctors and being told they will be able to help him. he gets so let down when it doesn't work and he is back at square one and health is declining.

[Pugsy]

i do know it is a BI pap machine which blow at 4cm until he has an apnea event, then it ramps up to a max of 12 if needed to push him into taking a breath.

That's an odd setting for a bipap machine.
It sounds like auto adjusting pressures wide open or ramp. Once I get the model number for sure then we can get you a manual so we can check out exactly what the settings are.

If it says BiPap on the machine that is real obvious but lets make sure we know exactly what we are dealing with so I can get you the correct manual and start from there.
It's something you all need to know anyway.

[jdr999]

i do know it is a BI pap machine which blow at 4cm until he has an apnea event, then it ramps up to a max of 12 if needed to push him into taking a breath.

While that may be true, there's another side to the story..

As I understand it pressurized air is used to hold the airway open which should prevent events and awakenings from occurring. Generally 4cm is not nearly enough pressure to sustain most of our airways here and such little airflow can make it feel difficult to breath. I'm not the least bit comfortable at anything under 8cm. But even at 8cm I will have many events - so I set my machine with a minimum 11cm with no ramp. Everyone is different, but it's important to start at a pressure that can prevent events from occurring, not just react to them.

The whole idea is to stay asleep and not stress your heart and other organs. Not breathing naturally reduces your oxygen levels which kicks your cardiovascular system into overdrive. All your heart knows is that something is horribly wrong and must do anything it can to fix it.

The correct therapy and pressure will hopefully prevent these events from occurring at all.

[MS Gray Man]

Well, I'm not the expert but I can tell you without a doubt a machine running at 4 makes me feel like I'm suffocating all the time... As the previous poster mentioned anything below 8 is not tolerable to me. Works well because my min pressure is 13.5 to truly control the events... But I did play around with lower settings and even at 8 it's barely tolerable when I'm awake. 10 or 11 is where it becomes comfortable to breath and feel like there is enough air available to me.

My guess is follow this through with Pugsy and it might just work out.. sounds like a full face mask is the way to go with the other issues...

Get him to where he can get enough sleep to function and the man you used to know will return..

Have faith and keep hanging in there.

[jdr999]

By the way, most of us here naturally suffer from sleep apnea as well as other related sleep disorders, ailments, and general aches and pains. Sleep apnea isn't usually the initial reason for our visit. It's usually just an afterthought after being treated for a variety of other issues such as depression, insomnia, anxiety, hypertension, gerd, etc..

Usually once sleep apnea rears its ugly head there are a variety of other medical conditions present.. And each and every one makes dealing with apnea more difficult. But if the apnea is causing or worsening these other issues, it's best to get the apnea under control and everything else may fall into place..

Remember though, that strapping on the mask is the last piece of the puzzle.

Have you ever used computer dictation software? You spend tons of time training the software to learn your voice, you have to speak slowly and clearly, and basically change everything you do until you figure out a way to make it work reliably for you. xPAP is no different. You need to change everything and find that one position and one routine that actually works for you. It's not easy....

I would fully exhaust all non-surgical options first. Prescription nasal sprays, breath-rights, various mask combinations, sleeping positions, humidity, possibly aroma therapy, etc. And definitely see if you can up the pressure. There's no way I could breath properly at only 4cm....

[Greg6657]

I just read this and the only thing I could suggest is maybe he try sleeping sitting up using his pap. Since he has problems breathing when he lays down. Sleep is sleep and I would rather sit and sleep then not sleep at all. Its just a thought.

Greg

[archangle]

Your description of suffocating is the absolutely classical description of what happens when the starting pressure is too low. You can turn it up yourself pretty easily, although the medical mafia will resent you trespassing on their turf and will act like this is going to cause him to spontaneously combust.

Get the information on the model machine he has, and get the software so you can tell what's happening.

Also get him to make the notes I mentioned when he has a suffocation episode. The software will tell you more.

If he's got bad tonsils, it may make sense to get them out. That's not nearly as iffy as the UPPP or the tongue tying thing. Get a second opinion on the tonsils, of somehow confirm it's not just a chop happy surgeon. Even if he doesn't really need them out, the drawbacks of removal are usually fairly small in an adult.

Good luck, you sound like there's a good chance he's on the road to recovery.

[Sir NoddinOff]

Granted I didn't read every single post, but has anybody suggested nasal pillows like the Swift FX? Early on, I had a terrible time getting enough air with my various FFMs and felt like I was suffocating most of the time, even tho my therapy pressures exceed 7cm all the time. When I tried the nasal pillows I liked the way they shoot air right into my sinus cavities, where it's most needed. My lack of air and panic feelings, plus my nasal stuffiness the next morning went away the very first night. And never came back. Worth a shot. Also 4cm is too low a pressure for just about anybody.

[Seekinganswers]

yes, he has tried the nasal pillows too. He didn't care for them but I don't remember why exactly. He has slept the last 4 nights with his machine 4+ hours!! He has a sleep study tomorrow night with his machine so they can see why he is waking up with it on his forehead. he doesn't remember taking it off

[Seekinganswers]

Sorry I am late to the party here. I had some fires to put out yesterday.

Lots going on...let's start with the basics.
What machine is being used? What settings on the machine for sure?
Is this a Phillips Respironics machine? If so look on the bottom of the blower unit for a 3 digit model number. Tell us what it is and we can figure out which machine.
It helps us if we know what is for sure being used.
Ramp....at 4 cm that's a recipe for disaster.

I totally understand the not being able to breathe through the nose thing. When it happens to me it doesn't matter if I can breathe through my mouth or not...my body says "hey, you can't breathe through your nose...you are going to be MISERABLE till you fix the nose" Just because we can breathe through the mouth and use a full mask mask to get the cpap pressure therapy...doesn't mean the brain or body will cooperate.

There's a little experiment I ask that you have your husband do...ask him to take his fingers and press on the sides of the bridge of the nose up by where the turbinates are...sort of where the mask rests. Ask him to apply pressure that approximates the pressure from the mask. Ask him if the pressure causes any difficulty with air movement...congestion, etc.
Ask him to give it about 10 minutes if he can stand the boredom.
Main thing...does the pressure cause congestion or difficulty breathing through the nose?

So 2 things right now for me...Let's figure out which machine is being used and the nasal pressure with fingers test.
That's all I need for right now.
Oh..make that 3 things...what is the humidity level set at now on the machine?

Sorry to be so late in answering your questions. His machine is a ResMed ipX1. he said it is a Flex cpap machine. I think his humidity is set to 4.5. Does that sound right? i was pushing around on buttons this morning and that's what it said. No, pressing on the sides of his nose doesn't cause difficulty with air movement. He is just congested..always...but especially when he lays down. He has a sleep study tomorrow night using his machine. Hopefully they will figure out the correct settings. He has been averaging about 4.5 hrs per night for the last 4 nights. Hopefully he will eventually get enough sleep accumulated to feel like a human again.

[SleepingUgly]

Does it say S9 Autoset on the top?

[Seekinganswers]

Well, I'm not the expert but I can tell you without a doubt a machine running at 4 makes me feel like I'm suffocating all the time... As the previous poster mentioned anything below 8 is not tolerable to me. Works well because my min pressure is 13.5 to truly control the events... But I did play around with lower settings and even at 8 it's barely tolerable when I'm awake. 10 or 11 is where it becomes comfortable to breath and feel like there is enough air available to me.

My guess is follow this through with Pugsy and it might just work out.. sounds like a full face mask is the way to go with the other issues...

Get him to where he can get enough sleep to function and the man you used to know will return..

Have faith and keep hanging in there.

I do have a very strong faith...it is what keeps me going. I just never imagined that someone could change so drastically because of sleep apnea. of course he has been dealing with it for several years and never has really never gotten the right treatment going. He has been given depression prescriptions and thyroid medicine...everything BUT a cpap machine! But thankfully, I started being woken up by his events or we would never have known what was causing all of his health issues...Low T, muscle and tendons hurting all the time, exhaustion, and now he has no zest for life, no libido, no nothing... he works but comes in ready to just go to bed and sleep, We have been married for 19 years...will be 20 in August. We have had the most awesome life together aside from the usual financial problems and work stress, but we always enjoyed each other intimately...always. Now he is almost like a stranger to me and me to him. It's just the most horrible thing to go through. he can't explain it other than he just doesn't feel anything anymore...Anyone ever went through this? He started having some difficulty in the sex department over a year ago, but still wanted it...even if we had to work a little bit to keep things going....now he is either afraid to try or just doesn't want to. This is tough...I generally go to sleep crying because i feel so rejected and unloved. Sorry to air my laundry on here, but i have nobody I can talk to about this....not even him..