Sleep Apnea and Memory

[Chuck Connors]

I've noticed that since the time I switched to an S9 VPAP machine, my mental sharpness, as well as short and long term memory, has noticeably been improved. My AHI is zero on most days, with 95% leaks of mostly under 10. What I've also changed in the past six months is adding a daily B12 supplement, along with my usual vitamins, such as a multi-vitamin, D3, fish oil capsules, etc... I've also gotten religious about getting a minimum of 7 1/2 hours of sleep each night, but preferably eight or a little more. Seven hours of sleep just doesn't cut it anymore, if I want to be alert and on my game the next day. I also don't sleep in "different time zones" anymore. That's how my sleep doc described it when he could see from my graphs that I was typically going to bed and waking up at the same times during the week, but then staying up late and sleeping in a little later than usual, on Friday and Saturday. -Chuck-

[kaiasgram]

Hey Starlette -- I hope this thread has helped diminish the sadness you described in your OP. I'm glad you don't feel so much like a lone wolf.

I've got a bunch of letters after my name including Ph.D. but I'm in the group Sleeping Ugly described as underachieving. It would be hard to say how much is due specifically to memory issues and how much due to fatigue and the focus/concentration/motivation issues that OSA can cause. But I can for sure say that my severe sleep apnea, for however long I had it before getting diagnosed, is a major factor in my track record of professional underachievement. I don't regret leaving my position as a university reseacher/lecturer because I love the clinical work I do now, but I know that I would not have survived in the competitive high-pressure university environment as my condition deteriorated (and this was all before menopause hit !) Write a successful grant proposal now? No way, no how.

What helps me with my memory issues -- first, like a lot of others I use lists and post-its and I leave voicemail messages for myself . Second, I'm invested in the stories and struggles of the people I work with in my clinical practice. It is easier for me to remember information when there is a meaningful relationship attached to it. I'm lucky in this regard. But I still do struggle with stuff like bookkeeping and keeping the business end of my practice organized and running smoothly.

[stage0]

Is your therapist also a nutritionist? I use many helps to keep my memory intact....omega rich foods and suppliments, low or no high corn sugar foods, ginko bilboa supplement, red pepper supplement and maintaining a active excersize regimen. As to sleep and memory; your REM stage is where memories are formed, maintain and consolidated. Of corse, apnea will cause one to not reach rem and depletes needed O-2 from the brain.

http://www.sleepfoundation.org/alert/sl ... solidation

http://www.sleepfoundation.org/alert/fi ... ring-sleep

[growing]

Starlette writes: I cannot understand why so many of you are so highly educated and have such high level positions and deal with sleep apnea which appears to not have affected your memory to have the positions you do have.

I have had OSA since I was in elementary school, and memory issues have made life interesting. College and grad schools were uphill battles, to say the least. I was in a Ph.D. program, and had to settle for an M.Sc. as I just couldn't summon up the info that I needed during my oral qualifying exam. (I'm pretty confident that if OSA diagnoses and CPAP therapy were commonly available in 1977, I would have passed my oral.)

As a professional, I had to work pretty hard, but as my career went along, I found myself having more and more "senior" moments. Finally, shortly before my diagnosis in 2005, I had to take myself out of a lead position in chemical emergency management planning and response, as I just didn't have enough mental CPU power (including recall) to respond effectively in an emergency. (I also think that I probably had mono at the time, which precipitated the big decline).

Here's the best part. Since starting cpap (then apap), which I have optimized for the lowest AHI (Doc is fine w me doing this), my mental CPU has come back! I remember things now that I could not have before, and I just love it. I also take fish oil, vit d, multis, and a few other supplements. I think that these help overcome the systemic and local inflammation that makes us untreated apneics sluggish. Regular exercise and watching weight (thus avoiding diabetes) are important as well.

So, hang in there, keep up w the therapy.

.

Hi all,
Thanks for sharing your specific experiences and comments.
I will post my experiences in due course.

Captain, congratulations for bringing back your mental CPU.
May I request you to share your optimized AHI : 7-day/30-day/1 year average?

[Shellie_p]

never thought about memory before i was diagnosed.. I found out i had Severe APnea when i was pregnant with my youngest. WE BOTH suffered for that year. My OBY/GYN attributed my constantly falling asleep with pregnancy. When it wasnt, only when i was transfered to a bigger hosptial was i tested/diagnosed. But this was 17 years ago.

My short term memory became non existant. And he suffered birth defects.

I to am a master of postit notes, timers, and reminders galore.
But reading this thread made me think. As a kid my caregivers tortured me with countless hours of study and memory recitals for my times tables because I couldn't memorize them.. Never was able to past 7's. And believe me it wasn't for lack of trying. But I could read a book or watch something or best even experience something and i had no trouble memorizing, I learned early in life that craming was worthless to me for the most part.

Up untill the sleep apnea became prominent enough to need treatment, I was almost unbeatable in trivial pursit, quiz shows etc. I graduated HS with decent grades, after wards self taught myself HTML (which i have since lost grr). Got married and didn't do college.
But things like times tables or state capitol lists were impossible. But I got A's in spelling.. go figure.

[sickwithapnea17]

I had such memory problems I couldn't read or remember a sentence- it's better now. But what is worse is the terrible exhaustion and complete lack of motivation. I've been unemployed for a while and it's hard to even do laundry.

I take klonopin which helps with asv, but I'm tired and can't sleept on machine now asv. maybe klonopin destorys memory too

[brendastarr]

never thought about memory before i was diagnosed.. I found out i had Severe APnea when i was pregnant with my youngest. WE BOTH suffered for that year. My OBY/GYN attributed my constantly falling asleep with pregnancy. When it wasnt, only when i was transfered to a bigger hosptial was i tested/diagnosed. But this was 17 years ago.

My short term memory became non existant. And he suffered birth defects.

The same thing happened to me. Fourteen years ago my baby was born with duodenal atresia, small features, rigid muscles, unable to eat, and died in the NICU after two months. Very sad.

[SleepingUgly]

The same thing happened to me. Fourteen years ago my baby was born with duodenal atresia, small features, rigid muscles, unable to eat, and died in the NICU after two months. Very sad.

Heartbreaking. So sorry for your loss.

[BlackSpinner]

But reading this thread made me think. As a kid my caregivers tortured me with countless hours of study and memory recitals for my times tables because I couldn't memorize them.. Never was able to past 7's. And believe me it wasn't for lack of trying. But I could read a book or watch something or best even experience something and i had no trouble memorizing, I learned early in life that craming was worthless to me for the most part.

Up untill the sleep apnea became prominent enough to need treatment, I was almost unbeatable in trivial pursit, quiz shows etc. I graduated HS with decent grades, after wards self taught myself HTML (which i have since lost grr). Got married and didn't do college.
But things like times tables or state capitol lists were impossible. But I got A's in spelling.. go figure.

Same here. My parents were told I was a bit "backwards" and the best they could hope for was that I made it through trade school. I graduated with a Honours in Mathematics - the whole thing of patterns of the numbers in those times tables fascinated me. I couldn't do the arithmetic but when I graduated I could tell you WHY those tables of numbers worked. Lists never worked - patterns on the other hand did.

The different ways of thinking are often referred to as "Mapping" and "Packing" The majority of people learn by packing, memorizing lists and processes - assembly line mentality. Mappers look at the stuff to be learned, recognize the patterns and apply those to create solutions that are as generic as possible.

[quietmorning]

I'm going to post this with a risk, this is something that has caused an incredible amount of contention in my personal life since I was very young - so please, take this for the point that I'm trying to make.

When I was in sixth grade my IQ tested out as 185. I was on a second year college level as far as comprehension was concerned and always blew away the yearly testing that was put in front of me. I had a photographic memory. I was placed on a self paced program and studied college level curriculum from then on to keep me from getting too bored. Of course it never accounted for anything -- way back in the day, they didn't know what to do with people like me.

Since young childhood I always had breathing issues. Chronic Bronchitis was always there. I coughed all night every night.

In high school I was punched in the face by a boy and ended up with a concussion with a mild coma for three days. After that I became a horrific insomniac - couldn't even get into the bed. I averaged 15 to 30 minutes a night of sleep. Residual is still a messed up sleep pattern.

When I was 22 I fell down a flight of stairs and broke my back in three places and broke my neck in one. My spinal cord pulled my brain backwards and swelled badly - as did my brain. I had to learn how to walk and talk again. Residual is I cannot remember names of people and things. Sometimes I miss words in sentences when I'm writing and letters. I don't discover this until I re-read, so I do a lot of correcting. Before this injury I stuttered. Now I don't. Go figure. I learned to speak from the correct brain center - a classic case of knocking myself . . . right . . . lol

When I was 32 I was in college actually earning the degree that never was recognized, I was retested and my IQ jumped to 192. Still had the photographic memory. Still aced everything I put myself to.

Now, I'm 49 and have apnea. My name recall is as bad as it has ever been .. . I find that I compensate by using a pronouns (that, it, she, he) which completely irritated those around me when they are trying to communicate with me, but this is a long honed coping mechanism.

On bad nights, my circumstantial recall is non-existent. I can't remember events that I partake in - as if they never existed. . .so they never get anywhere in my brain in the first place. On good nights, this is not an issue. It seems to have a direct correlation of how much REM I get. Maybe it's deep sleep, I don't know, but it seems that if I get less than an hour of REM, I can pretty much count on a dementia day.

The photographic memory is gone. I don't think this is because of 'memory' lapse per se, but because my comprehension is so effected by the lack of good sleep and oxygen during sleep. I remember odd things that I wouldn't think would stick, but I can no longer read a document and recite it word for word back to you.

Ok, now here's my point. What I found is that my brain is compensating. . . it does not get enough REM sleep, so I have become increasingly creative. I can solve problems at the drop of a hat with creativity that astounds those in my life. That's a GOOD thing. A good trade? Well, a photographic memory only functions when there isn't the document around to refer to. . .but creativity? THAT'S priceless.

So at this point in my life, if I look at the trade in's or actually TRADE UPS. . .then I really am encouraged - which is why I didn't include this in my rant.

I'm not a professional I don't have anything on paper as far as my education is concerned. (My heart kept stopping when I was on my way to become a doctor and I had to drop out.)

Being a brainiac is not all it's cracked up to be, nor does it guarantee a professional highly educated position in life. There are a lot of factors, including choices made and choices sustained. Sometimes it's the better thing to be humble and help others with a sense of gratitude, using what you have when you can - than it is to hold some higher place because of the way you were born.

So look at how your brain is compensating. You may well find that there is something there that wasn't there before that is there for a reason. . .to help, to uplift, to hold, to heal. . . to make this human race of ours that much better - and use it.

[khauser]

Awesome post. Thank you for sharing!

[Chilimon]

I have been wondering about my memory the past 2 - 3 years. I only found about my Sleep Apnea when I got married the second time, maybe my first wife didn't tell me because she was hoping I kick so she could collect, who knows

Anyhow I had a sleep study 6 years ago, 27 events an hour, not bad they say. A month ago I have another study, 51 events an hour, much worse, just started the CPAP.

Been thinking about the memory problem now, is it because of my Apnea or my head injury 3 years ago when I fractured my skull and had a concussion that it took me 9 months to overcome. I guess I'll never know.

My main memory problem is pulling up information at a moments notice. If I can think about it for a few minutes, then I am usually ok.

[BlackSpinner]

You may find this interesting - It is an old webpage and really quite primitive and focused more on software development but there are some interesting insights in it.

http://www.buildfreedom.com/content/rec ... /Day1.html

Scroll down to "How to Regain Mapping"

[Shellie_p]

The same thing happened to me. Fourteen years ago my baby was born with duodenal atresia, small features, rigid muscles, unable to eat, and died in the NICU after two months. Very sad.

Am so sorry for your loss.
He had heart issues at birth (since resolved) Club feet, and while our body's differ on each side his was very noticeable as a child. Mentally he does great with grades in school but socially he has Aspbergers and doesn't do well with people.

I would love to regain more of my memory, As I am trying to learn how to use some 3d creation tools for shape making. But the classes just don't stick and lost my list of shortcuts when my hard drive died a few weeks ago. So now i have to start over.

[Starlette]

Continuing to finish answering the posts given to me:

---------------------

StageO
Is your therapist also a nutritionist?

ANSWERS:
No. After reading your post, I may reconsider having one in my medical team.

---------------------

Brendastarr
The same thing happened to me. Fourteen years ago my baby was born with duodenal atresia, small features, rigid muscles, unable to eat, and died in the NICU after two months. Very sad.

ANSWERS:
I am very sorry for your loss as well.

---------------------

BlackSpinner
The different ways of thinking are often referred to as "Mapping" and "Packing" The majority of people learn by packing, memorizing lists and processes - assembly line mentality. Mappers look at the stuff to be learned, recognize the patterns and apply those to create solutions that are as generic as possible.

ANSWERS:
I’ll have to return and review that website. Thank you for sharing BlackSpinner.

---------------------

Quitmorning
On bad nights, my circumstantial recall is non-existent. I can't remember events that I partake in - as if they never existed. . .so they never get anywhere in my brain in the first place. On good nights, this is not an issue. It seems to have a direct correlation of how much REM I get. Maybe it's deep sleep, I don't know, but it seems that if I get less than an hour of REM, I can pretty much count on a dementia day.

Being a brainiac is not all it's cracked up to be, nor does it guarantee a professional highly educated position in life. There are a lot of factors, including choices made and choices sustained. Sometimes it's the better thing to be humble and help others with a sense of gratitude, using what you have when you can - than it is to hold some higher place because of the way you were born.

So look at how your brain is compensating. You may well find that there is something there that wasn't there before that is there for a reason. . .to help, to uplift, to hold, to heal. . . to make this human race of ours that much better - and use it.

ANSWERS:
Circumstantial Recall? I know EXACTLY what you’re talking about. And I thought I was the only one who experienced this.

Your last two paragraphs really hit home with me. You gave me a reality check.

---------------------

Chilimon
My main memory problem is pulling up information at a moments notice. If I can think about it for a few minutes, then I am usually ok.

ANSWERS:
I still can't pull up information at a moments notice, I wish I could.

---------------------

BlackSpinner
Scroll down to "How to Regain Mapping"

ANSWERS:
Excellent writing! I’ll DEFINITELY have to try this

---------------------

As for memory loss in general, I wish I could share this with my family, in-laws and husband. I feel that if they knew, they would consider it a major flaw/weakness in me and a possibility of taking advantage of that weakness. Sad, but true. This is something I feel I can only share with the forum because you all understand the situation.

Thank you all *humbly stated*
Starlette