OT: Tragic Shooting.

[SleepyToo2]

As a pacificist at heart I object to guns on principle. I recognize that some people "need" to have them for hunting purposes, but when the "hunting" is actually for the killing of other human beings, it becomes abhorrent. Why anyone would need some kind of "rifle" that shoots up to 30 rounds per cartridge to hunt anything other than 300 lb bears is totally beyond me. From what I do know about hunting, if you need 30 shots to kill a bear, you desperately need some instruction in how to use a gun.

Sad as it is, I think the real problem in Newtown, CT, was not the gun. As someone else has pointed out, there was a problem with storage of those guns. However, we do not know what went on in that house before the shooter left with the guns. The real problem to me seems to be that the shooter obviously had some kind of psychiatric problem that no one was able to help with. What we really need is a discussion about the mental health "management" system in this country. A person who goes off and commits a crime like this must have shown some signs before last Friday. Why was no one able to help him? Or why did no one help him? Are we all like the people who walked on the other side of the road in the parable of the good samaritan? Apologies to anyone not of the Christian faith, but it is the one I am most familiar with. Are we too afraid of psychiatric "illnesses" to extend a helping hand? Sometimes these people do need a very firm hand, but HIPAA, and other laws that are supposed to protect the patient, actually prevent the authorities helping those who need it most - those who are not of sound mind.

It makes me feel sick to think that but for the Grace of the higher powers, it could have been my son in that school that day - or any other school where someone walks in with a military-grade weapon. However, I do hope that it prompts real debate about the societal factors that led to the events of last Friday. Is gun control going to work? Probably not, although I see no need for as many guns as are readily available. Would a police officer in every school help? Probably not, because how are they going to be able to defend against a barrage of 30 bullets in short time. If they are, what lessons are we teaching our kids.

Sorry if this has been said before, but it bears repeating.

[Slinky]

If I remember the news report right the California teachers union pension fund has like $60 million invested w/Cerebus and the union has "threatened" to pull their funds and invest elsewhere. Certainly an incentive for Cerebus to sell off that Bushmaster manufacturer, Freedom Groups.

[SleepyToo2]

But selling something requires more than just the intention to sell - it requires a buyer. Maybe the NRA will find someone?

[deltadave]

Again, it's about

[49er]

Again, it's about

DD,

Your efforts have been beyond the call of duty. But to be honest, I am beginning to feel it is pointless.

I am just very saddened that no one is listening.

49er

[Pugsy]

DD,

Your efforts have been beyond the call of duty. But to be honest, I am beginning to feel it is pointless.

I am just very saddened that no one is listening.

Ditto.

[jnk]

Again, it's about

I, also, personally appreciate your attempts to keep the focus off the political and social ramifications of the event, although I can understand why those who can only process the horror of the situation that way may feel that their discussing the tragedy in those terms is their only way of attempting to do something practical to prevent further tragedies.

Uncle Dave, Sir, given your relative proximity and your being a parent yourself, I assume this must have hit you and your family particularly hard on a personal level. So, if you don't mind my asking, Seriously, how are you doing?

My heart goes out to all those directly affected, but it also goes out to all those nearby, especially those with young ones, and to you personally.

[RandyJ]

Again, it's about

I agree. However, it is not disrespectful to the memories of those who died by having a discussion about how their deaths might have been prevented. Instead, I believe it honors them and the sacrifice forced upon their families.

Peace to all ....

[deltadave]

Seriously, how are you doing?

I would say that's it's much worse than 9/11.

That said (darn you -SWS!), I would also say that the response of the community (and we are all one community) is as good as 9/11.

[opticalpopsicle]

[quote="RandyJ"
I agree. However, it is not disrespectful to the memories of those who died by having a discussion about how their deaths might have been prevented. Instead, I believe it honors them and the sacrifice forced upon their families.

Peace to all ....[/quote][/quote]

Exactly.

[deltadave]

[lazer]

Again, it's about

I agree and I tried this approach on my first post on page one of this thread but as the tide turned and the comments started regarding the NRA and rednecks, white guy, prayers offending athiests, ect... I unfortunately got wrapped up in the mix of emotion and anger, thus I went once again on the defense as it seems I have to constantly do in all forms of my life (relationship, ect...)

Sorry for that. Here's my contribution to try to get this back on topic.

[123.Shawn T.W.]

An interesting email I received this morning ... About a father of a child killed in the CO shooting:

Something to think about.

Well worth the read - COLUMBINE STUDENT'S FATHER 12 YEARS LATER !! Guess our national leaders didn't expect this. On Thursday, Darrell Scott, the father of Rachel Scott, a victim of the Columbine High School shootings in Littleton, Colorado, was invited to address the House Judiciary Committee's subcommittee. What he said to our national leaders during this special session of Congress was painfully truthful.

They were not prepared for what he was to say, nor was it received well. It needs to be heard by every parent, every teacher, every politician, every sociologist, every psychologist, and every so-called expert! These courageous words spoken by Darrell Scott are powerful, penetrating, and deeply personal. There is no doubt that God sent this man as a voice crying in the wilderness.. The following is a portion of the transcript:

"Since the dawn of creation there has been both good &evil in the hearts of men and women. We all contain the seeds of kindness or the seeds of violence. The death of my wonderful daughter, Rachel Joy Scott, and the deaths of that heroic teacher, and the other eleven children who died must not be in vain. Their blood cries out for answers.

"The first recorded act of violence was when Cain slew his brother Abel out in the field. The villain was not the club he used.. Neither was it the NCA, the National Club Association. The true killer was Cain, and the reason for the murder could only be found in Cain's heart.

"In the days that followed the Columbine tragedy, I was amazed at how quickly fingers began to be pointed at groups such as the NRA. I am not a member of the NRA. I am not a hunter. I do not even own a gun. I am not here to represent or defend the NRA - because I don't believe that they are responsible for my daughter's death. Therefore I do not believe that they need to be defended. If I believed they had anything to do with Rachel's murder I would be their strongest opponent

I am here today to declare that Columbine was not just a tragedy -- it was a spiritual event that should be forcing us to look at where the real blame lies! Much of the blame lies here in this room. Much of the blame lies behind the pointing fingers of the accusers themselves. I wrote a poem just four nights ago that expresses my feelings best.

Your laws ignore our deepest needs,
Your words are empty air.
You've stripped away our heritage,
You've outlawed simple prayer.
Now gunshots fill our classrooms,
And precious children die.
You seek for answers everywhere,
And ask the question "Why?"
You regulate restrictive laws,
Through legislative creed.
And yet you fail to understand,
That God is what we need!

"Men and women are three-part beings. We all consist of body, mind, and spirit. When we refuse to acknowledge a third part of our make-up, we create a void that allows evil, prejudice, and hatred to rush in and wreak havoc. Spiritual presences were present within our educational systems for most of our nation's history. Many of our major colleges began as theological seminaries. This is a historical fact.
What has happened to us as a nation? We have refused to honor God, and in so doing, we open the doors to hatred and violence. And when something as terrible as Columbine's tragedy occurs -- politicians immediately look for a scapegoat such as the NRA. They immediately seek to pass more restrictive laws that contribute to erode away our personal and private liberties. We do not need more restrictive laws.
Eric and Dylan would not have been stopped by metal detectors. No amount of gun laws can stop someone who spends months planning this type of massacre. The real villain lies within our own hearts.

"As my son Craig lay under that table in the school library and saw his two friends murdered before his very eyes, he did not hesitate to pray in school. I defy any law or politician to deny him that right! I challenge every young person in America , and around the world, to realize that on April 20, 1999, at Columbine High School prayer was brought back to our schools. Do not let the many prayers offered by those students be in vain. Dare to move into the new millennium with a sacred disregard for legislation that violates your God-given right to communicate with Him.
To those of you who would point your finger at the NRA -- I give to you a sincere challenge.. Dare to examine your own heart before casting the first stone!
My daughter's death will not be in vain! The young people of this country will not allow that to happen!"
- Darrell Scott
Do what the media did not - - let the nation hear this man's speech.
__________________

[opticalpopsicle]

Delta Dave...typo fixed.

For those of us like myself who are very close to the tragedy, both in physical proximity, and have children the same age that we send on the school bus to school every day......some of us actually want this school shooting problem fixed. This is why we talk about it. It is too painful to me to see pictures of the kids....they look just like my son. That is fine to post them, but don't censor those of us who want to see this NEVER happen again. No matter which side you are on, face it - this time we need to deal with it, not shove it under the rug like the last 20 or so times. We are all grieving with Newtown. Just know that all the talk IS about Newtown.

[SleepyToo2]

Here is at least one news item that brings joy in this whole sad situation: http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/201 ... t=1&f=1001

On the other hand, I also read news tonight of those s***bags who are scamming people in the name of the victims. How despicable is that? More prayers for the families who are affected by this whole catastrophe, please. And if you don't pray, just send kind thought vibes in that direction.