S9 ResMed AutoSet II: Customer Service Truth!

[cdnduck]

On Friday Oct 26/12 I finally returned the loaner APAP machine and picked up my new ResMed AutoSet II APAP machine. Everything was fine until a fellow CPAP user came over on Saturday to examine my machine. After spending about 5 minutes with the unit, he declared that I received a old unit. He stated that the S9 unit with a serial number of 2211216XXX was manufactured in Australia in 2011. The H5i had a serial number of 22121557XXX which was made in Australia in 2012 August.

Today I called ResMed to find out the truth. The first call went to customer service who told me that the S9 unit was manufacture in March 2012 and the H5i was "Summer 2012". Firmware on the unit is SX474-0903. My friend also told me that the firmware, which cannot be updated, should be 905. When I asked the CSR about the firmware, she knew nothing about this. She put me on hold and 10 minutes later, told me that I had the lastest.

I thought this answer was strange to say the least, so I called back and go a hold of tech support. I again forward to him the exact same serial numbers and asked him when it was manufactured. He came back and asked me if I purchase this as a set. I stated, yes. He then stated that both the S9 and the H5i were manufacture in August 2012. I told him this was different then what I recieved 10 minutes ago. I also asked him what the latest firmware was, and he stated that there was no 904 rev, and that 905 was just released on Oct 1/12.

This data is the exact opposite of what my friend and other members of this forum have told me. They have told me that the unit was produce in March of 2011 and the H5i was produced in August 2012.

My concern is this. Why would I want to have a old unit, since I just purchase this unit on Friday? Who knows what advancements were made with the firmware, and who knows what I need or don't need in teh future. Since this unit will be with me for 3-5 years, I don't know where I will be then.

However the most important question that I have is why is Resmed not telling me the truth??

[StuUnderPressure]

He stated that the S9 unit with a serial number of 2211216XXX was manufactured in Australia in 2011. The H5i had a serial number of 22121557XXX which was made in Australia in 2012 August.

My concern is this. Why would I want to have a old unit, since I just purchase this unit on Friday? Who knows what advancements were made with the firmware, and who knows what I need or don't need in teh future. Since this unit will be with me for 3-5 years, I don't know where I will be then.

However the most important question that I have is why is Resmed not telling me the truth??

You mentioned in 1 place that you had an AutoSet II and in another place referred to it as an S9.

If you DO have the ResMed S9 AutoSet, "I" believe that the S9 WAS manufactured in 2011 & the H5i was manufactured in 2012. Here is why - and I agree up front that it is quirky how ResMed does it.

The 1st 4 digits of the Serial Number are the YEAR of manufacture.
Just replace the 2nd digit with a zero.
The 2nd digit of 2 specifies WHERE it was manufactured - Australia in both cases.

To determine the ACTUAL date of manufacture, you do have to call ResMed.
And yes, you do have to call more than once to get a "concensus".
And speaking to both Customer Service and Tech Support allows you to reach that "concensus" a little quicker.

ResMed seems to keep their machines in their warehouses approx 3 months before they even ship them to the DME. Then there is the amount of time the DME kept it in their stock.
So, most ResMed machines sold are usually 6 months or more old before they are sold to the patient. That time increases if the DME is smaller & does not sell many machines.

I origianlly purchased my S9 AutoSet on 12-22-11 and subsequently found out that it had been manufactured in early June 2011. So, it was already almost 7 months old when it was sold to me and had the Software Version of 0602

That was unacceptable to me, so I demanded that the DME replace it with a recently manufactured one.

On 1-31-12, I got a newer S9 with the Software Version 0903 manufactured Oct 2011 in Australia and a newer H5i manufactured Nov 2011 in Australia.

Those manufacture dates were acceptable to me since I initially purchased the 1st S9 late December 2011.

Unfortunately, it would be easier to demand that exchange if you had noticed that before you accepted delivery of the machine.

But, it CAN be done. I did it!

Stick to your guns !

The latest Software Version is at least 0905 or later.
I would determine that for sure & ask for the latest Version (whatever it is).
0905 seems to have been out for a while, so it IS possible that there is an even later Version out already.

The DME will have to special order a newer machine from ResMed (if they do not already have one in stock).

[chunkyfrog]

Some of the later S9 Autosets have been observed making an annoying "hooting" sound on exhale.
(ResMed does not consider it a flaw)
If your machine does not do this, you just might want to keep it.
I've had mine since Feb. 2011, and it's nice and quiet.

[cdnduck]

The story continues to get better. Now that I had 2 different dates for each machine ( S9 AS and H5i) I thought I would call them again. See if somehow I could get some truth. Called CS and got a hold of a very nice gentlemen. I explain to him that I have been "frustrated" with the mixed messages ResMed has been given to me and I just want to know the truth. He stated that he would give me the correct information, eventhough they are told......

Wow, I can't believe he stated that but when I asked him to repeat this, he stated that he couldn't.

He told me the the S9 AS itself was manufacture in Oct 2011 and the H5i was manufacture in July 2012. He explained to me that most units are shipped to the warehouse where they normally are for 3-4 months before they are shipped out to a customer. He told me that depending on the unit and the DME, it could take another 3-4 months before the end customer would purchase the machine. In your case, the machine is 1 year old, therefore he can't explain why this unit was still there. He asked me if it had any hours on it and I told him it didn't.

We all heard of "customer being warned" before you purchase anything, but the issue here is if you are new to the whole CPAP/APAP experience, you won't know any of this! It's not like you go and purchase a car that you believe to be new, but then you find out later, it's a year old. There is a certain trust factor here that isn't happening and some DME are getting away with this.

I have to admit it, but some of this "frustration" is due to ResMed and how they operate. Fist of all, why is it so hard to find out the manufacture date? Everything today has a manufacture date on it, why are medical devices different???

Second, why does ResMed hide this information which is buried inside the serial number? This information should be up front and easily accessable to all of us.

The final question I asked the CSR if you were me, wouldn't you want teh latest firmware on your machine? His answer was funny. Sir you wouldn't purchase a new set of tires if they were a year old! i stopped and told him, sure we would, we do it all the time!

However, the point is that all new people going down this road need to understand what is really going on with some DME's and understand that they can push back and get teh latest machine with the latest firmware that they have. After all, it is your money!!!

[archangle]

I don't think you've got any reason to complain about getting an older unit. You're not buying food that goes bad over time. CPAPs don't rot sitting on the shelf. (Well, the clock battery does get a little older.)

Unless there was some significant bug in the older version of S9 that is fixed in newer versions of the software, you got what you paid for.

[zoocrewphoto]

We all heard of "customer being warned" before you purchase anything, but the issue here is if you are new to the whole CPAP/APAP experience, you won't know any of this! It's not like you go and purchase a car that you believe to be new, but then you find out later, it's a year old. There is a certain trust factor here that isn't happening and some DME are getting away with this.

Actually, many cars are manufactured during the year before their official date. So, a 2012 car was probably manufactured in 2011. I don't know what that is, but it seems to be pretty common.

I just looked at my serial number for the first time, and it is from 2011. I bought in April of 2012. I honestly don't care. It was brand new with zero hours of use, and it works great. While the machines of today are much better than the machines of 5 years ago, 10 years ago, etc. I really doubt they change much from one year to the next now that we have useful data. How much more are they really going to add to the machines when most doctors don't care about the data anyway? The machine was awesome last year and still is this year.

[woodworkerjunkie]

The story continues to get better. Now that I had 2 different dates for each machine ( S9 AS and H5i) I thought I would call them again. See if somehow I could get some truth. Called CS and got a hold of a very nice gentlemen. I explain to him that I have been "frustrated" with the mixed messages ResMed has been given to me and I just want to know the truth. He stated that he would give me the correct information, eventhough they are told......

Wow, I can't believe he stated that but when I asked him to repeat this, he stated that he couldn't.

He told me the the S9 AS itself was manufacture in Oct 2011 and the H5i was manufacture in July 2012. He explained to me that most units are shipped to the warehouse where they normally are for 3-4 months before they are shipped out to a customer. He told me that depending on the unit and the DME, it could take another 3-4 months before the end customer would purchase the machine. In your case, the machine is 1 year old, therefore he can't explain why this unit was still there. He asked me if it had any hours on it and I told him it didn't.

We all heard of "customer being warned" before you purchase anything, but the issue here is if you are new to the whole CPAP/APAP experience, you won't know any of this! It's not like you go and purchase a car that you believe to be new, but then you find out later, it's a year old. There is a certain trust factor here that isn't happening and some DME are getting away with this.

I have to admit it, but some of this "frustration" is due to ResMed and how they operate. Fist of all, why is it so hard to find out the manufacture date? Everything today has a manufacture date on it, why are medical devices different???

Second, why does ResMed hide this information which is buried inside the serial number? This information should be up front and easily accessable to all of us.

The final question I asked the CSR if you were me, wouldn't you want teh latest firmware on your machine? His answer was funny. Sir you wouldn't purchase a new set of tires if they were a year old! i stopped and told him, sure we would, we do it all the time!

However, the point is that all new people going down this road need to understand what is really going on with some DME's and understand that they can push back and get teh latest machine with the latest firmware that they have. After all, it is your money!!!

As zoocrew stated, new cars are built and can set on a lot somewhere for months before it is ever shipped to a dealer, then set on the dealer lot for months before being sold to customer. Wouldn't you want a new car to have the latest updates before purchasing it? This happens everywhere, sorry if you are just now noticing this.

Every business tries to practice, first in, first out. That helps keep inventory fresh. But, employees may not always follow procedure and move the old stock first, It even happens at your grocery store, take some time and pay attention to how the store rotates stock. Their freshest stock should be at the back of the shelf, while the old stock is in the front. Doesn't always happen that way. I worked in a grocery store years ago. I remember several times, taking the old product off the shelf, ready to rotate, then find the new product we received from the warehouse was actually older than what was on our shelf. It happens, it's life, no reason to get so upset about it!

These companies have to try to estimate what they think they will be able to sell over a given period of time. If they don't produce enough product, they are going to miss sells, and customers are going to be upset that they can't buy it now! If they produce to much, it is going to set in the warehouse until it does sell. If the economy takes off, sells pick up and they need to produce more product, if the economy slows, they have to cut back or end up with inventory setting everywhere.

You expect to be able to walk into a business and purchase the products you are wanting, that means the store has to carry excess inventory, the producer has to produce the inventory ahead of time to make sure that each and every business can order the inventory it needs. Or, would you rather go to a business and order what you want, then go back in two or three weeks, or maybe a month or two and pick it up, after the manufacturer has had time to build it and then ship it to the business to sell it to you? That is the only way you are going to get the very latest product from the manufacturer.

[Burkebang]

Some of the later S9 Autosets have been observed making an annoying "hooting" sound on exhale.
(ResMed does not consider it a flaw)
If your machine does not do this, you just might want to keep it.
I've had mine since Feb. 2011, and it's nice and quiet.

Amen to that, I had two Singapore manufactured S9's and they howled and hooted. That's very annoying when I'm struggeling to sleep. If your S9 is quiet, I would definatly hold on to it.

[chunkyfrog]

Mine is an Aussie.

[cdnduck]

I believe many of you are missing the point. My DME is charging me and the government $1585 CDN. Why would I not want the latest and the greatest? However the most important aspect of this is why is it so difficult to get the manufacture date from ResMed. By not coming clean (it took three calls to ResMed, talking to 3 different employees before the truth was told) they are giving the impression that everything is fine. Second, by going through this process, they are giving the impression that there could be more to it than meets the eye! Finally why would the DME give their customers the impression that they are receiving a "new machine". It's there any responsbilitiy from the DME and/or ResMed to notify the customer that the machine you are getting is over 1 year old? By not telling the customer, they are sending out the wrong impression.
As customers, we should always know what we are purchasing and then LET US DECIDE!. Some of you who reply are correct. Perhaps there is very little difference from firmware 903 to 905 or even the soon to be released 906, but shouldn't the customer who is about to spend $1500 have the final option to purchase this unit or not???
I believe it is their responsibility to clearly notify the customer when each unit was manufacture which currently has XXX firmware and let us decide. Perhaps some of you are OK with their current process of operating, however since I'm the one who is paying $1500 with the belief that this unit is the latest and greatest, with the intent that this unit will last me 5+ years, then I believe I have the right to know what I'm about to purchase, and let me decide whether this unit will work for me!

[JO'M]

I don't think people are missing the point, it's simply not an issue that they are concerned about. Sounds like this is something that is important to you. But it is not important to others. You want the most recent machine manufactured, others are more concerned with the model and zero therapy hours.

just a difference in viewpoints

[woodworkerjunkie]

I believe many of you are missing the point. My DME is charging me and the government $1585 CDN. Why would I not want the latest and the greatest?

You got the latest and greatest that the DME had in stock, Just not the latest and greatest that ResMed had to offer! Your DME has to sell through their inventory, to order the latest and greatest. You just happened to buy at the wrong time.

However the most important aspect of this is why is it so difficult to get the manufacture date from ResMed. By not coming clean (it took three calls to ResMed, talking to 3 different employees before the truth was told) they are giving the impression that everything is fine. Second, by going through this process, they are giving the impression that there could be more to it than meets the eye! Finally why would the DME give their customers the impression that they are receiving a "new machine".

I don't think anyone can tell you why you received 3 different answers from ResMed, people may have a guess, but no one will know for sure. Maybe, that the first couple of people really didn't know how to interpret the date code, and just guessed at it. I don't know, that is just a guess.
Companies are going to sell you the stock they have on hand. Your machine is new (according to the laws) if it has never been sold retail, or used before, therefore it's new. Maybe not the most "up to date", but, it is new. What do you want your DME to do, just throw it in the trash because it's more than a month or two old! They will sell you what they have on hand, and when they are getting low on inventory, they will order new product.

It's there any responsbilitiy from the DME and/or ResMed to notify the customer that the machine you are getting is over 1 year old? By not telling the customer, they are sending out the wrong impression.

No! If it's new in the box, it is considered new, regardless of the Mfg. date!
When you get that new car, they never tell you that the car was manufactured 8 or 10 months before you drive it off the lot!
According to your definition of "new", there would be no new car sells! They are always making refinements and changes, even after they start making a new model they still make changes during the process. I can't imagine a car dealer selling a car as used because it has changed into the new model year and they have one on their lot from the previous year. It's still sold as new because it has never been registered, though they may discount the price some.

As customers, we should always know what we are purchasing and then LET US DECIDE! shouldn't the customer who is about to spend $1500 have the final option to purchase this unit or not???

You said it best yourself! "As customers, we should always know what we are purchasing". According to the law it's called "due diligence", up to the consumer.
Yes, you did have that option, you could have walked out with your money in hand and bought your machine somewhere else. Maybe customers that are really that worried about such things, should take it upon themselves to check such matters before plunking down the money.

I believe it is their responsibility to clearly notify the customer when each unit was manufacture which currently has XXX firmware and let us decide. Perhaps some of you are OK with their current process of operating, however since I'm the one who is paying $1500 with the belief that this unit is the latest and greatest, with the intent that this unit will last me 5+ years, then I believe I have the right to know what I'm about to purchase, and let me decide whether this unit will work for me!

Again, it is up to the consumer to do their "Due diligence" before purchasing anything! If you had a question about the mfg date and firmware, it is up to you to inquire about it, before purchasing it, not after! As far as the process, that has always been the process and probably always will be, unless the laws are changed. There is nothing that would lead anyone to believe that your machine will not last you five years, anymore than any other machine. And yes, your right! You have the right to know what your about to purchase, that is why you should ask questions! And, if you don't like what they are trying to sell you, take your money and walk out!

I believe the point people are trying to get you to understand is, you'll "NEVER" buy anything brand new, according to your definition of new! Companies are always working on upgrading and advancing their products, but, they will still sell through their old inventory! It's up to you to make sure of what you are purchasing!

With all that said, I'm not upset with you and not trying to upset you. Though you may be upset with me, I'm just trying to point out that it is always the customers responsibility to know what they are purchasing! If you ever fill uncomfortable about a purchase, walk away! Never let yourself be pressured into buying anything! Once you buy it, it is yours! You might go down and talk (nicely) to the DME in person, and see if they can swap it out for you. They don't have any obligation to do so, just understand that before you go! And "If" (big word here), they change it out for a more up to date model, let them know how much you appreciate them, because, most likely they will have to trash your old machine.

[Slartybartfast]

[snip]
My concern is this. Why would I want to have a old unit, since I just purchase this unit on Friday? Who knows what advancements were made with the firmware, and who knows what I need or don't need in teh future. Since this unit will be with me for 3-5 years, I don't know where I will be then.

However the most important question that I have is why is Resmed not telling me the truth??

First part of your quesstion:

I mean this gently, but that all seems a little obsessive to me. It's an incremental firmware upgrade. It's not a new version, and certainly not a new model. If I were given an S8, and told it was new since it was unopened in the box, I'd be P.O'ed too, but you're not. Resmed periodically upgrades their firmware just like they upgrade ResScan with new versions every couple of months. And other than a few format changes, nobody has been able to figure out specifically what the changes represent. If there were any significant difference they would have slapped a sticker on it and come out with "New and Improved" or "Latest and Greatest Firmware!"but they haven't. It's just an incremental firmware ugrade.

To your second point, consider the possibility that yours might have been the first such question the customer service rep. had heard. If there were an important distinction between the firmware versions you can be sure that they would have been given a script to read to you that would explain the difference.

[billbolton]

I believe many of you are missing the point.

That's OK, many of us believe that you are missing the point

If you don't like any aspect of the deal your DME is offering you, find another DME

[cdnduck]

Thanks for the replies!

The issue here is two fold. If you are not aware of the firmware changes, you would never know! Who responsiability is it to inform the customer what he or she is purchasing? Is it the manufacture? Is it the DME?

As a customer who was new to this whole CPAP process, you don't know what to look for nor what to ask; you trust that your DME would inform you to this information. If the DME told me that the machine I'm about to give to you was manufactured in Oct 2011 which has the firmware 903 on it, then I totally agree with the forum. It would be up to me to make these decisions.

The example everyone likes to use pertaining to an automobile is wrong. After having spent 10 years of my life working for GM, the automotive sector operators slight different than other companies. The calendar year and the automotive year do not match. New models start to roll off the line in late summer, therefore a car that is produced in August 2011 is the exact same model as a car made in April 2012. Plus, everyone knows what model year they are purchasing! You know that if you purchase a 2012 Camero, that car could have been produced anywhere from August 2011 to May 2012!

Could you imagine going into a dealer, deciding you wanted a 2012 Camero, and when you drive it home, you find out that it is a 2011 Camero! You then phone up the dealer and when you communicate your finding to him, he states that there were only minor changes to the car, I don't understand your concern?

The point here is I was lead to believe that I was purchasing a new S9 AutoSet II. Not new, as in there are zero hours used on it( by definition, that would be a used machine) but new as in the latest and greatest (within reason!) Since I'm the one purchasing this machine, the DME should have communicated this information to me, and then let me decide if the current machine would meet my needs!

There are hundreds of examples out there to support this. From electronics, to sporting goods to food. All cases the customer is told either what model year or what calendar year the goods are! Then the choice is up to them!

Finaly the point about the CSR not knowing how to reply to the question of the manufactue date is just toatlly wrong. If they don't know what to say, just tell the truth. Tell the customer you don't have that information. They may not be happy, but they will understand. However by telling the customer a bogus date is simply wrong! Good customer service companies know that this is not the right information to be communicating to your customers!