Insomnia theory

[1041]

Two books, mentioned by robysue and AHI15, had good insight.

Sound Sleep, Sound Mind - Barry Krakow
The Effortless Sleep Method - Sasha Stephens

They say sleeping is controlled by a different sector of the brain than our common waking mind.

I apply this to napping.

I imagine some little portion of my brain as being the center of the autonomic system that controls automatic things like breathing and sleeping. I picture its location in my skull and say to myself, "I give you control."

I try to let it unfettered do what it wants. I find it pursuing surprising things, random thoughts with no seeming prompt or relishing fatigue.

If only I could get my conscious mind to truly cede control to it each night for 8 hours.

It really is a yin yang thing. I've always viewed the low mood and lack of willpower of a sleepy day as weakness. But from the autonomic center's point of view, these are strength. The drive to indulge and relax.

Maybe that's why I'm hungrier on a sleepy day too. Sleep and hunger are both base urges, the autonomic system's jurisdiction.

[chunkyfrog]

Those of us who do not have insomnia cannot ever understand it fully, nor should we want to.
I can, however understand some of the emotions felt by those who find it so frustrating.
I wish I could help.

[avi123]

I don't see how these theories could help insomniacs. Epilepsy is also caused by certain parts of the brain.
But with Epilepsy, a brain surgery could cure the Epilepsy by removing the offending tissues.
Do you propose brain surgery to cure Insomnia?

[1041]

We can't cure insomnia with surgery yet, but maybe we can use mental exercises to lighten our insomnia.

[robysue]

I imagine some little portion of my brain as being the center of the autonomic system that controls automatic things like breathing and sleeping. I picture its location in my skull and say to myself, "I give you control."

I try to let it unfettered do what it wants. I find it pursuing surprising things, random thoughts with no seeming prompt or relishing fatigue.

If only I could get my conscious mind to truly cede control to it each night for 8 hours.

I think you are onto something important: Many insomniacs have a very difficult time simply shutting down all the chatter (and worry) from the conscious part of our mind and allowing our mind to drift to to freely wander without getting stuck on closure issues and then giving ourselves over to that automatic part of our nervous system that takes care of our body when we are asleep.

It does get easier with practice. And for me---the bit of meditation I've done in yoga classes is helping me not "catch" those thoughts and start controlling them (and hence become more awake).


To avi: You missed the point. 1041 is not saying there is a physical location in the brain of an insomniac that physically causes the insomnia. (As you noted here are such things with epilepsy.) Rather 1041 is speaking metaphorically of allowing one's conscious mind to release control to an imagined "center for the autonomic system" for the duration of the sleep period.

[glg]

Although I currently sleep reasonably well, thanks to my SA therapy, I have suffered with insomnia in the past. I told myself on many mornings, after a night with little or no sleep that all I need to do is get through today, and tonight I will sleep. Only to tell myself the same thing again the next morning. If compartmentalizing your mind, and giving authority to an individual area helps let you sleep, do it. Few things are worse than perpetually felling sleep deprived. It consumes your life.

[AHI15]

Hi,

Here's a shift of mental perspective that might help some folks to "get" the ying/yang of sleeping:

I've decided that I shall no longer ever attempt to "go to sleep." Rather, I shall "go to bed."

Going to bed is the only thing I can actually do. Since, it is impossible for anyone to "do" going to sleep. That is done for us by our bodies. We merely have to go to bed and let it happen. Sleep is not something we can "do!" Sleep is non-doing.

This is where it can get very confusing. Hint, if it gets confusing you're trying too hard. We've all heard the story about not trying to think of a monkey, right? You can't not think of a monkey, since the very thought of not thinking about a monkey includes the thought of a monkey. So just as you can't do going to sleep, neither can you do not doing going to sleep! Ie., you can't do non-doing. Put clearer, if you decide "I am not going to try to go to sleep," then you are trying to not do going to sleep, and once again missing the point.

This really just means that we have to do something else entirely. We can't not do something by intending not to do it, at least when it comes to the mind. Rather, we simply avoid trying to sleep by default, when we do something else with our minds.

So basically what I do now is I go to bed, and I just let my mind wander. I don't even try to relax or meditate, because meditation for me should never have an intended goal or else it is "becoming" which is another form of doing, which meditation is not by definition (at least in my Buddhist tradition).

I know there are categories of thinking and mental activity which are not conducive to sleep, and those which are not unconducive. Thinking about work, for ex., is a no-no. But thinking of how much I like my favorite figure skater, and I wish she will win the National Championships (well, as long as such a thing isn't too much of an emotional attachment), ie., light-hearted relatively meaningless thought wandering or daydreaming about nothing very serious--that is the right kind of wandering.

I can do that! I can't not think about work. I can recognize if I am thinking about work, that it is a no-no. But if I say "oh no I must stop thinking about work or it will ruin my efforts to not try to go to sleep!" Oopsy-daisy! In actually, if such a thing happens, there is a choice at that point which can be made to see this mental nonsense for what it is, and just go somewhere else mentally again. Rather than fight it and start missing the point again.

Now certainly there are things we can do to help the body do going to sleep, just as there are things we can do to hinder the process. Those things I prefer to do before bed. That's in the category of winding down stimulation sources, stretching and relaxing on the floor in the dark living room, waiting until the sensation of sleepiness comes.

But we must understand very clearly that that thing we call "I" which is really just a process, cannot go to sleep. It can only prepare the body and mind for sleep, put the body into bed, then get out of the way. It can't go to sleep because it's very purpose in life is to cling to consciousness at all costs. So we have to trick it to sleep by subterfuge. We let it go for a little mental ride in the country, while our body snuffs out consciousness with a nice dose of it's sleepy hormones.

Now which one of us can consciously tell our body to adjust the blood concentration of various hormones to specific concentrations to induce sleep and have your body comply? Of course, such a thing is ridiculous. But that is exactly the faculty we would need to possess if we were to actually be able to "go to sleep."

Good luck!

[Julie]

Btw, you're hungry when you're sleepy because your body craves carbohydrates, more sweets, to try and pump up your energy, like eating a chocolate bar (or cereal) to keep climbing a mountain.

[ChicagoGranny]

Two books, mentioned by robysue and AHI15, had good insight.

Sound Sleep, Sound Mind - Barry Krakow
The Effortless Sleep Method - Sasha Stephens

They say sleeping is controlled by a different sector of the brain than our common waking mind.

I apply this to napping.

I imagine some little portion of my brain as being the center of the autonomic system that controls automatic things like breathing and sleeping. I picture its location in my skull and say to myself, "I give you control."

I try to let it unfettered do what it wants. I find it pursuing surprising things, random thoughts with no seeming prompt or relishing fatigue.

If only I could get my conscious mind to truly cede control to it each night for 8 hours.

It really is a yin yang thing. I've always viewed the low mood and lack of willpower of a sleepy day as weakness. But from the autonomic center's point of view, these are strength. The drive to indulge and relax.

You are overthinking the issue and making it worse. Keep it simple:

- Use the software to make sure your CPAP therapy is good
- Exercise regularly
- Engage in activities which you find satisfying
- Google "sleep hygiene", study it and practice it

Maybe that's why I'm hungrier on a sleepy day too. Sleep and hunger are both base urges, the autonomic system's jurisdiction.

No need to theorize. Science already knows the answer to this. Learn what ghrelin and leptin are and how they get out of balance when you do not have a good night's sleep.

Good luck!

[SleepingBearDoNtWake]

I just got the book "I can make you sleep" by Paul Mckenna. I got it used. I read the whole book today, and I have to say it was very pratical. Unfortunetly the Hypnosis CD that went with it was missing.
I have found that hypnosis and relaxation techniques are very helpful. I would recommend this book, as it talks about mind chatter, and some other areas. It is very simple stuff, but as he tries to state, most insomnia is learned, and then we label ourselves as the worst insomniac and nothing and no one can help, and we have done it all. He tries to you to stop labeling yourself as such, and that you need to change some behavoirs and thought patterns. It's not an overnight fix, but I have used some of the suggestons that he has in the book before and they really helped, so now I am going to start a sleep program and truely start to work one the several areas that he brings up in his book.
Mike

[1041]

Do you have sleep onset insomnia or sleep maintenance insomnia?

The area you chose to work on, why did you choose that one specifically?

[SleepingBearDoNtWake]

For me it is more onset insomnia, but I have had times, that lasted weeks or months with maintance insomnia. I'm not trying to say it is easy, but I do think that we can improve ourselves in this area. You are going to have to look at the reasons that you have insomnia. Stress, anxiety, depression, mindless mind chatter that doesn't stop. I have multiple areas that contribute to it, so I really need to work on my sleep hygene. I have been doing a relaxation tape this last 2 weeks, and it has been so helpful, that is what made me look for one that was specifically that deals with sleep and insomnia.