suicidally tired
- Rosiemoto
- Posts: 15
- Joined: Tue Oct 26, 2010 11:16 am
- Location: Vancouver, Washington State, USA near Portland, Oregon
- Contact:
suicidally tired
Here is some data for me if anyone cares to review it.
http://tinyurl.com/folderjv
http://tinyurl.com/veteranaug2012
I'm so tired all of the time. I wake up feeling awful. Amazingly I sometimes feel better a few hours after waking up, pretty good by evening.
I've been on a bipap since 2000. I had 4 sleep studies between 2000 and 2003. All indicated 18/12 or 18/14 and very little Delta Wave.
Centrals are more recent (only in the last 6 months after a divorce). I'm wondering if they can be caused by stress although that seems unlikely.
I use a Respironics System One Bipap 18/12 Ipap/Epap. Got the System One in May of 2011.
Mode BiLevel
Ipap 18.0
Epap 12.0
Flex type Bi-Flex
Bi-Flex 3
Tubing Type 15 (it is 15)
System One X1
Humidifier 2
Large Leak 6% in last 7 Days
Large Leak 3% in last 30 days
AHI 7 day 13.5
AHI 30 day 14.7
I have the following sleep problems:
Obstructive Apnea
Complex Apnea
Delayed Sleep Phase Syndrome normal bedtime is 4:30 A.M. wake at 4 p.m. local
Not going into Delta Wave Sleep
Very sensitive to any light
Light sleeper require earplugs
http://tinyurl.com/folderjv
http://tinyurl.com/veteranaug2012
I'm so tired all of the time. I wake up feeling awful. Amazingly I sometimes feel better a few hours after waking up, pretty good by evening.
I've been on a bipap since 2000. I had 4 sleep studies between 2000 and 2003. All indicated 18/12 or 18/14 and very little Delta Wave.
Centrals are more recent (only in the last 6 months after a divorce). I'm wondering if they can be caused by stress although that seems unlikely.
I use a Respironics System One Bipap 18/12 Ipap/Epap. Got the System One in May of 2011.
Mode BiLevel
Ipap 18.0
Epap 12.0
Flex type Bi-Flex
Bi-Flex 3
Tubing Type 15 (it is 15)
System One X1
Humidifier 2
Large Leak 6% in last 7 Days
Large Leak 3% in last 30 days
AHI 7 day 13.5
AHI 30 day 14.7
I have the following sleep problems:
Obstructive Apnea
Complex Apnea
Delayed Sleep Phase Syndrome normal bedtime is 4:30 A.M. wake at 4 p.m. local
Not going into Delta Wave Sleep
Very sensitive to any light
Light sleeper require earplugs
Last edited by Rosiemoto on Fri Aug 31, 2012 2:18 am, edited 2 times in total.
******----------------------******
Respironcs System One BiPap with integrated Humidifier
Philips Comfort Lite 2 Mask or Respironics OptiLife
Tape my mouth shut with Poligrip Strips and 3M Tape
33 db Earplugs
******************-----------------************************
Respironcs System One BiPap with integrated Humidifier
Philips Comfort Lite 2 Mask or Respironics OptiLife
Tape my mouth shut with Poligrip Strips and 3M Tape
33 db Earplugs
******************-----------------************************
Re: suicidally tired
Seems like you
a) Have a lot of leaking going on
b) get centrals, despite bipap
Both these things can make treatment ineffective. you might need a bipap ST or ASV for those centrals, but i'd try to get the leaks fixed first.
a) Have a lot of leaking going on
b) get centrals, despite bipap
Both these things can make treatment ineffective. you might need a bipap ST or ASV for those centrals, but i'd try to get the leaks fixed first.
_________________
Humidifier: S9™ Series H5i™ Heated Humidifier with Climate Control |
Additional Comments: Actually a S9 VPAP Adapt, and Respironics M Series Auto BiPAP |
- Rosiemoto
- Posts: 15
- Joined: Tue Oct 26, 2010 11:16 am
- Location: Vancouver, Washington State, USA near Portland, Oregon
- Contact:
Re: suicidally tired
you are joking right, I should relax? that will help my central apnea events?
******----------------------******
Respironcs System One BiPap with integrated Humidifier
Philips Comfort Lite 2 Mask or Respironics OptiLife
Tape my mouth shut with Poligrip Strips and 3M Tape
33 db Earplugs
******************-----------------************************
Respironcs System One BiPap with integrated Humidifier
Philips Comfort Lite 2 Mask or Respironics OptiLife
Tape my mouth shut with Poligrip Strips and 3M Tape
33 db Earplugs
******************-----------------************************
- zoocrewphoto
- Posts: 3732
- Joined: Mon Apr 30, 2012 10:34 pm
- Location: Seatac, WA
Re: suicidally tired
When I read the first part about you feeling awful at first and better later on, I wondered if you might have DSPS. I do as well. I typically go to bed between 4 and 6am. I typically feel okay or slow when I get up. Better in the afternoon, much better in the evening. And pretty great after midnight. I think that has to do with the DSPS, and as long as you can have a schedule that first your sleep, I would not mess with that.
My sleep doctor is a neurologist, and I had to fill out 12 pages of questions before I did my sleep study. He reviewed the paperwork and the sleep study when I had my first appointment with him. I knew that many of my answers would show my sleep schedule and might imply that I want to fix that. I'm okay with it, quite used to it, and I do NOT want to change it. So, I made a point of writing on my paperwork that my work schedule is by request so that I can stay with my sleep schedule as I feel better on that schedule. I only wanted to fix my sleep apnea problems. He mentioned it, and was pleased to know that I was already familiar with the term delayed sleep phase syndrome, that I knew what it was, and was able to make it work. Once he knew I was okay with it, the he never mentioned it again. I was so pleased that a sleep doctor was trying to fix that.
Welcome to the group. It will get better as you get used to the machine, and make adjustments. You may have to adjust your settings as you figure out what works and what doesn't.
My sleep doctor is a neurologist, and I had to fill out 12 pages of questions before I did my sleep study. He reviewed the paperwork and the sleep study when I had my first appointment with him. I knew that many of my answers would show my sleep schedule and might imply that I want to fix that. I'm okay with it, quite used to it, and I do NOT want to change it. So, I made a point of writing on my paperwork that my work schedule is by request so that I can stay with my sleep schedule as I feel better on that schedule. I only wanted to fix my sleep apnea problems. He mentioned it, and was pleased to know that I was already familiar with the term delayed sleep phase syndrome, that I knew what it was, and was able to make it work. Once he knew I was okay with it, the he never mentioned it again. I was so pleased that a sleep doctor was trying to fix that.
Welcome to the group. It will get better as you get used to the machine, and make adjustments. You may have to adjust your settings as you figure out what works and what doesn't.
_________________
Mask: Quattro™ FX Full Face CPAP Mask with Headgear |
Humidifier: S9™ Series H5i™ Heated Humidifier with Climate Control |
Additional Comments: Resmed S9 autoset pressure range 11-17 |
Who would have thought it would be this challenging to sleep and breathe at the same time?
Re: suicidally tired
ARGH. I saw the post by byronagetz and after a google search decided it was a spam post, not a reply to your problem. When I came back from searching I clicked to delete the spam post, not seeing that you had just posted and I mistakenly deleted your post. I am so sorry.
Hopefully through legitimate responses you can find your way to a state of being that feels well worth living.
Kathy
Hopefully through legitimate responses you can find your way to a state of being that feels well worth living.
Kathy
_________________
Mask: TAP PAP Nasal Pillow CPAP Mask with Improved Stability Mouthpiece |
Humidifier: S9™ Series H5i™ Heated Humidifier with Climate Control |
Additional Comments: Bleep/DreamPort for full nights, Tap Pap for shorter sessions |
My SleepDancing Video link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jE7WA_5c73c
- Rosiemoto
- Posts: 15
- Joined: Tue Oct 26, 2010 11:16 am
- Location: Vancouver, Washington State, USA near Portland, Oregon
- Contact:
Re: suicidally tired
Speculating that feeling awful on wakeup may have to do with cortisol levels, especially with apnea 'not in control'. Waking up full of cortisol and adrenaline and having that burn off as the day wears on might be what we DSPS folks experience...
>When I read the first part about you feeling awful at first and better later on, I wondered if you might have DSPS. I do as well. I typically go to bed between 4 and >6am. I typically feel okay or slow when I get up. Better in the afternoon, much better in the evening. And pretty great after midnight. I think that has to do with .
>the DSPS,
>When I read the first part about you feeling awful at first and better later on, I wondered if you might have DSPS. I do as well. I typically go to bed between 4 and >6am. I typically feel okay or slow when I get up. Better in the afternoon, much better in the evening. And pretty great after midnight. I think that has to do with .
>the DSPS,
******----------------------******
Respironcs System One BiPap with integrated Humidifier
Philips Comfort Lite 2 Mask or Respironics OptiLife
Tape my mouth shut with Poligrip Strips and 3M Tape
33 db Earplugs
******************-----------------************************
Respironcs System One BiPap with integrated Humidifier
Philips Comfort Lite 2 Mask or Respironics OptiLife
Tape my mouth shut with Poligrip Strips and 3M Tape
33 db Earplugs
******************-----------------************************
Re: suicidally tired
In the nights you posted, you're leaking all over the place, along with snoring a ton.
There's a good reason you're exhausted; if the pressure the machine applies isn't getting where it needs to be - your airway - the treatment isn't effective.
What mask are you using? And have you worked with anyone to really get a good seal?
There's a good reason you're exhausted; if the pressure the machine applies isn't getting where it needs to be - your airway - the treatment isn't effective.
What mask are you using? And have you worked with anyone to really get a good seal?
- chunkyfrog
- Posts: 34545
- Joined: Mon Jul 12, 2010 5:10 pm
- Location: Nowhere special--this year in particular.
Re: suicidally tired
I would seriously go back to the doctor and urge him to look for a different cause for your tiredness.
No one treatment is a cure-all; and causes of fatigue are too often misdiagnosed, or even ignored.
If it has been a while since your last blood chemistry, that would be a good place to start.
You may have a deficiency, or something. Good luck!
No one treatment is a cure-all; and causes of fatigue are too often misdiagnosed, or even ignored.
If it has been a while since your last blood chemistry, that would be a good place to start.
You may have a deficiency, or something. Good luck!
_________________
Mask: AirFit™ P10 For Her Nasal Pillow CPAP Mask with Headgear |
Additional Comments: Airsense 10 Autoset for Her |
Re: suicidally tired
Seems unlikely to me also. Whatever the cause...the centrals are in great enough numbers that it warrants a discussion with your doctor about them. Especially since you mention 6 months which leads me to believe that you didn't have them before.Rosiemoto wrote: Centrals are more recent (only in the last 6 months after a divorce). I'm wondering if they can be caused by stress although that seems unlikely.
If the added stress in your life is causing some insomnia...then maybe some of those are awake/semi awake centrals and can be discounted but I think a discussion with your doctor is in order.
The blank times on the graphs shown without them are during large leak so probably the machine just couldn't sense and flag them properly.
So work on the leaks...you already knew that and do talk to your doctor about the presence of the centrals.
Something may have happened that is not related to stress and they may be real and may be causing oxygen level drops. They need to be evaluated IMHO by your doctor.
_________________
Machine: AirCurve™ 10 VAuto BiLevel Machine with HumidAir™ Heated Humidifier |
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I may have to RISE but I refuse to SHINE.
- Sgt_Pepper
- Posts: 25
- Joined: Thu May 24, 2012 11:28 am
- Location: Florida
Re: suicidally tired
I'm not a doctor and I don't play one on tv .. ut here are a few thoughts from the gentleman sitting in seat 714 row 5280 in the cheap seats of life. Apologies if these subjects have already been beaten to death in your life.
I can't say i know exactly what you're going through. That said, I have been on a VERY long trek to find out why I go through periods where I feel more dead than alive .. more asleep than awake. I'm 50 now and it started in my late 20s. My excessive sleepiness/feeling like *%$&/ is cyclical. I occasionally get a respite from it. Here is my story .. it's not told so I can talk about me. It's told as one model of working toward a solution to a very slippery problem .. that of excessive sleepiness/feeling the zombie and when you feel like that .. ain't (aint?) nothin right. I chose each of my Dr.s carefully, did exactly what they told me to do, kept meticulous records .. and in turn each has listened when I said 'it ain't (there's that word again) working!'
Early on, my doctors did the regular physical thing, told me to eat right, cut out caffeine, get more sleep, get a grip ,, yada yada. When I started down this road I was in great physical shape with a healthy diet and got adequate sleep. Basically I got the medical equivalent of quit whining. 6+ years ago I mentioned to the family Dr. I was seeing at the time that I had been told I quit breathing in my sleep and asked about a sleep study. He said I didn't fit the physical profile (which according to a friend who has done sleep tech work for a LONG time, there is no physical profile). I stuck to my ground and had his nurse order a sleep test - I think so I'd leave his office . Moderate Apnea on my sides and stomach ... deathly apnea when I sleep on my back. (How do you spell that noise that you make when you give somebody a rasberry?)
Took some fine tuning of the CPAP stuff but life got better. A few years ago I started sliding back into the excessively sleepy abyss .. worse than before. I started with my current family doc - who is WONDERFUL .. and although she ran every test she knew to run for excessive sleepiness (I was told by a doc who is a friend that the medical community differentiates between excessive sleepiness and fatigue - I was calling it fatigue. Is what he told ,e true? Who knows - I now call it excessive sleepiness).
A few things were out of whack on my blood work so she referred me to an endocrinologist (these docs can be your friend . There is one practice in this neck of the woods that's viewed as being head and shoulders above everyone else .. so I waited 4 months to get an appt. The endo guy said my thyroid was a little off but more importantly, probably wasn't optimal for me. Endocrinologists seem to fine tune the thyroid to the individual. My testosterone was also quite low (I took that news with the same grace that Moe usually showed when Larry or Curly accidentally hit him in the head with a pipe wrench). Picked ego off the floor and started on testosterone replacement therapy. Things got better but not great or even real good. The endocrinologist stated from his point of view there was no clinical reason for my sleepiness.
Soooo ... back to the sleep doc. They had me bring my data card in (I'd had my ResMed S8 for years and never even put the card in. Put the card in .. took the machine with me. I think at that time the nurse practitioner was checking me for compliance - which I understand. if I'm not going to try and help myself, why should they try? I was knighted 'Very Compliant' in a touching ceremoney and they dumped teh data off the card and printed some graphs. I was disappointed .. cuz man were they uuuuuggglllyyyyyy - they didn't reveal anything really scarey .. they just looked really spartan.
Next step: Re-titration - which some insurance companies (including mine) require every x years now). The only thing I got out of that was sticky hair.
Lastly (for now) came the multi latency sleep test. That was 4 days ago. I got a call from the hospital's sleep center and it seems my results were 'abnormal'. I have an appt with the sleep doc next week (I've never actual even met the sleep doc .. everything has always been done with the techs or nurse practitioner. he is a neurologist with a specialty in sleep medicine. I'm hoping I'm getting closer to the end of the road .. although I realize they may tell me that I have X condition which will always be with me .. but we can give you these meds to help take the edge off (I already take Provigil/Nuvigil which doesn't help much).
The short response - and my point - is that there is value in a methodical approach to isolating the problem - assuming you can find the right medical professionals. I've been very blessed medical professional wise so far. They haven't taken everything Ive said at face value and I don't blame them. As they've challenged and I've pushed back - armed with whatever I could use to help make my case (hell, I even printed off my gym usage records - my health club keeps that online we developed a mutual respect and credibility. As Sherlock Holmes once observed 'Once you've eliminated the impossible, whatever remains - however unlikely, must be the truth'. My docs have methodically eliminated causes. I circled back to the hospital sleep center with an armload of test results, physician reports, as well as logs of what I've been doing to help myself.
Bottom line is one person has your best interests in mind. That person has to be diplomatic yet stubborn - self educated yet realizing that the doc knows more than you do .. although you have it hands down in the caring about you department. Today's medical professionals are overburdened. With insurance reimbursements what they are (docs get paid way less than half of actual charges) they have to see a LOT of patients. family practitioners and internal medicine docs aren't getting rich. Soooo .. I've found it's in my best interest to try and be a little different from the rank and file patient.They deal with whiners all day long. If I waited a long time in the waiting room, I'm pleasant with everyone .. even joke about it .. even though I may be seething inside . I try and be pleasant and upbeat with everyone from the receptionist to the doc herself. That allows me to stand my ground when I think they need to dig a little deeper and spend more time with em than the appt book allows.
Said all that to say ... put a plan together .. work the plan .. and be your own patient advocate. You have your best interests in mind. if someone isn't being genuinely helpful and it's an option, go someplace else. Realize at the same time, that docs have to rule out things that we may not consider relevant. Few things bubble to the top immediately.
In my line of work, I often have to have clients go through a series of steps to identify the root cause of an issue. The worst ones to work with are the ones who only follow the steps they want to follow. I'm real good at letting their follow up calls roll over to voice mail.
Sorry about the ramblings .. but brevity is not my strong suit. Learn, research, get REAL stubborn .. FIGHT! I saw lots of good advice in earlier posts about leaks and what not. make sure that's addressed. Then start going down the list. If you follow a logical plan, genuinely exhaust exhaust every option and are still really really tired ... feel free to create a post in say .. 18 point font ... explaining how stupid this post was and why I am more than likely one of the biggest idiots you've ever met. Hopefully I will have found my solution by then and I'll be awake enough to see it
I wish you well.
I can't say i know exactly what you're going through. That said, I have been on a VERY long trek to find out why I go through periods where I feel more dead than alive .. more asleep than awake. I'm 50 now and it started in my late 20s. My excessive sleepiness/feeling like *%$&/ is cyclical. I occasionally get a respite from it. Here is my story .. it's not told so I can talk about me. It's told as one model of working toward a solution to a very slippery problem .. that of excessive sleepiness/feeling the zombie and when you feel like that .. ain't (aint?) nothin right. I chose each of my Dr.s carefully, did exactly what they told me to do, kept meticulous records .. and in turn each has listened when I said 'it ain't (there's that word again) working!'
Early on, my doctors did the regular physical thing, told me to eat right, cut out caffeine, get more sleep, get a grip ,, yada yada. When I started down this road I was in great physical shape with a healthy diet and got adequate sleep. Basically I got the medical equivalent of quit whining. 6+ years ago I mentioned to the family Dr. I was seeing at the time that I had been told I quit breathing in my sleep and asked about a sleep study. He said I didn't fit the physical profile (which according to a friend who has done sleep tech work for a LONG time, there is no physical profile). I stuck to my ground and had his nurse order a sleep test - I think so I'd leave his office . Moderate Apnea on my sides and stomach ... deathly apnea when I sleep on my back. (How do you spell that noise that you make when you give somebody a rasberry?)
Took some fine tuning of the CPAP stuff but life got better. A few years ago I started sliding back into the excessively sleepy abyss .. worse than before. I started with my current family doc - who is WONDERFUL .. and although she ran every test she knew to run for excessive sleepiness (I was told by a doc who is a friend that the medical community differentiates between excessive sleepiness and fatigue - I was calling it fatigue. Is what he told ,e true? Who knows - I now call it excessive sleepiness).
A few things were out of whack on my blood work so she referred me to an endocrinologist (these docs can be your friend . There is one practice in this neck of the woods that's viewed as being head and shoulders above everyone else .. so I waited 4 months to get an appt. The endo guy said my thyroid was a little off but more importantly, probably wasn't optimal for me. Endocrinologists seem to fine tune the thyroid to the individual. My testosterone was also quite low (I took that news with the same grace that Moe usually showed when Larry or Curly accidentally hit him in the head with a pipe wrench). Picked ego off the floor and started on testosterone replacement therapy. Things got better but not great or even real good. The endocrinologist stated from his point of view there was no clinical reason for my sleepiness.
Soooo ... back to the sleep doc. They had me bring my data card in (I'd had my ResMed S8 for years and never even put the card in. Put the card in .. took the machine with me. I think at that time the nurse practitioner was checking me for compliance - which I understand. if I'm not going to try and help myself, why should they try? I was knighted 'Very Compliant' in a touching ceremoney and they dumped teh data off the card and printed some graphs. I was disappointed .. cuz man were they uuuuuggglllyyyyyy - they didn't reveal anything really scarey .. they just looked really spartan.
Next step: Re-titration - which some insurance companies (including mine) require every x years now). The only thing I got out of that was sticky hair.
Lastly (for now) came the multi latency sleep test. That was 4 days ago. I got a call from the hospital's sleep center and it seems my results were 'abnormal'. I have an appt with the sleep doc next week (I've never actual even met the sleep doc .. everything has always been done with the techs or nurse practitioner. he is a neurologist with a specialty in sleep medicine. I'm hoping I'm getting closer to the end of the road .. although I realize they may tell me that I have X condition which will always be with me .. but we can give you these meds to help take the edge off (I already take Provigil/Nuvigil which doesn't help much).
The short response - and my point - is that there is value in a methodical approach to isolating the problem - assuming you can find the right medical professionals. I've been very blessed medical professional wise so far. They haven't taken everything Ive said at face value and I don't blame them. As they've challenged and I've pushed back - armed with whatever I could use to help make my case (hell, I even printed off my gym usage records - my health club keeps that online we developed a mutual respect and credibility. As Sherlock Holmes once observed 'Once you've eliminated the impossible, whatever remains - however unlikely, must be the truth'. My docs have methodically eliminated causes. I circled back to the hospital sleep center with an armload of test results, physician reports, as well as logs of what I've been doing to help myself.
Bottom line is one person has your best interests in mind. That person has to be diplomatic yet stubborn - self educated yet realizing that the doc knows more than you do .. although you have it hands down in the caring about you department. Today's medical professionals are overburdened. With insurance reimbursements what they are (docs get paid way less than half of actual charges) they have to see a LOT of patients. family practitioners and internal medicine docs aren't getting rich. Soooo .. I've found it's in my best interest to try and be a little different from the rank and file patient.They deal with whiners all day long. If I waited a long time in the waiting room, I'm pleasant with everyone .. even joke about it .. even though I may be seething inside . I try and be pleasant and upbeat with everyone from the receptionist to the doc herself. That allows me to stand my ground when I think they need to dig a little deeper and spend more time with em than the appt book allows.
Said all that to say ... put a plan together .. work the plan .. and be your own patient advocate. You have your best interests in mind. if someone isn't being genuinely helpful and it's an option, go someplace else. Realize at the same time, that docs have to rule out things that we may not consider relevant. Few things bubble to the top immediately.
In my line of work, I often have to have clients go through a series of steps to identify the root cause of an issue. The worst ones to work with are the ones who only follow the steps they want to follow. I'm real good at letting their follow up calls roll over to voice mail.
Sorry about the ramblings .. but brevity is not my strong suit. Learn, research, get REAL stubborn .. FIGHT! I saw lots of good advice in earlier posts about leaks and what not. make sure that's addressed. Then start going down the list. If you follow a logical plan, genuinely exhaust exhaust every option and are still really really tired ... feel free to create a post in say .. 18 point font ... explaining how stupid this post was and why I am more than likely one of the biggest idiots you've ever met. Hopefully I will have found my solution by then and I'll be awake enough to see it
I wish you well.
_________________
Machine: AirSense™ 10 Elite CPAP Machine with HumidAir™ Heated Humidifier |
Mask: AirFit™ P10 Nasal Pillow CPAP Mask with Headgear |
Resmed Airsense A10 Elite CPAP
Resmed AirFit P10 Mask
Heated Hose
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Heated Hose
Re: suicidally tired
Hi and welcome Rosiemoto!Rosiemoto wrote: Centrals are more recent (only in the last 6 months after a divorce). I'm wondering if they can be caused by stress although that seems unlikely.
I believe they can be and often are. I base this upon my own experience with unstable breathing and the understanding that unstable breathing is a precessor to hypocapnic central apneas.
2003 I was diagnosed with severe Obstructive Sleep Apnea (AHI – 52) with extreme hypoxia (SpO2 minimum 55%). While struggling to build a new carrier I was stabbed, robbed, and beaten late 2005. Twice in the last several years I have gone to the emergency room during the anniversary of that event to deal with suicidal tendencies during that time.
This year that time was made easier by a new understanding of how breathing was part of the stress. Specifically I can now see that I entered a state of chronic hyperventilation (do read the Wikipedia article on hyperventilation!) which raised my heart rate and starved my brain of oxygen. Not good for the brain and bad for sleep.
Several times when I used CPAP during this time I woke up breathing very hard with my heart beating out of my chest. I “put the breaks” on my breathing by breathing out gently, stopping for ten seconds, breathing three slow gentle breaths ending with breathing out gently, stopping for ten seconds … repeating until I could feel the blood rush back into my feet and the strong urge to breath evaporated – so then continuing to breath at a gentle reasonable rate. I now use the same idea but stop for five seconds and breath five slow gentle breaths to do a set. I am always amazed when that crazy urge to breath so much goes away.
Apparently the “extra gain” of the CPAP pressure along with the “extra gain” of the anniversary stress combine to make the breathing unstable. Stress is indeed a big part in this. In checking out the research about this I ran across the article at http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21206741 . Since I have the skills I rigged some dead space for myself with my doctors knowledge. Recent research shows ASV is apparently a better solution but my need was temporary and this was so much cheaper.
Please do show and discuss the above article with your doctor.
May you find good solutions soon!
Todzo
May any shills trolls sockpuppets or astroturfers at cpaptalk.com be like chaff before the wind!
Re: suicidally tired
Wow. This has been my problem lately. Are you saying this because you believe you have chronic hyperventilation syndrome? Is this a result of your having a predecessor event--recorded or unrecorded? I just posted this same problem a few days ago. Must be kismet that I saw this. If this is hyperventilation, do you have a waveform graph you could post to show the hyperventilation breathing pattern? I'm getting a lot of sporadic "hairy" waveforms that I do not know what is going on, but wonder if it is not indicative of hyperventilation. Ooohhhhh...please see this post, Todzo.Todzo wrote:Several times when I used CPAP during this time I woke up breathing very hard with my heart beating out of my chest.
Avoid tooth extractions (including wisdom teeth) & train-track braces; find a functional orthodontist at http://iaortho.org/.
Re: suicidally tired
Rosiemoto,
Your leaks are very problematic and to my eyes, those wave forms are full of breathing patterns that look a lot like wake breathing or transitional breathing. How much actual sleep do you think you got on these days? And you say you have the following known sleep problems:
You say that your current lifestyle (including the job) works with the current sleep schedule. So we will ignore that 4:30 AM bedtime: If that's when you want to fall asleep and sleeping during the day is not directly responsible for problems in your life, its not a huge issue. But you also report an average wake time of around 4:00pm. That means you are reporting an 11.5 "Time in bed (TIB)" window, and this lengthy TIB is potentially a real issue: Are you really lying in bed for most of that time? And how much actual sleep do you estimate you get during the 11.5 hours between bedtime and wake time? In other words, it may be that you are working too hard too increase your total sleep time (TST) and not enough on increasing your sleep efficiency. Note that sleep efficiency = (TST/TIB)*100%, and many people will not feel particularly rested unless their sleep efficiency is up around 85-90%.
You are a light sleeper sensitive to both noise and light and you sleep primarily in the daytime. You use earplugs to block the ambient noise in your sleeping environment. What do you do about the light since you sleep during the daytime? And given the size of your leaks, do they frequently wake you up? Or do you tend to sleep through them? And what (if anything) have you done to try to address the leak problems?
Finally, you say the sleep studies all show that you don't get much Delta (slow wave sleep or deep NREM sleep). Have you considered getting a zeo to get at least a crude estimate on how much delta sleep you are getting in your own bed on a regular basis?
Your leaks are very problematic and to my eyes, those wave forms are full of breathing patterns that look a lot like wake breathing or transitional breathing. How much actual sleep do you think you got on these days? And you say you have the following known sleep problems:
You say that you've got Complex Apnea (CompSA) as well as OSA. So I assume that central apneas have shown up in significant numbers on at least one of your previous sleep studies. In light of that, you need to let the sleep doc know that the number of centrals has increaded substantially in the last six months. It may be that something has changed and that while the bipap managed the CompSA well in the past, you've reached a point you need a BiPAP ST or an ASV machine. Bring this up with you sleep doc seems prudent to me.I have the following sleep problems:
Obstructive Apnea
Complex Apnea
Delayed Sleep Phase Syndrome normal bedtime is 4:30 A.M. wake at 4 p.m. local
Not going into Delta Wave Sleep
Very sensitive to any light
Light sleeper require earplugs
You say that your current lifestyle (including the job) works with the current sleep schedule. So we will ignore that 4:30 AM bedtime: If that's when you want to fall asleep and sleeping during the day is not directly responsible for problems in your life, its not a huge issue. But you also report an average wake time of around 4:00pm. That means you are reporting an 11.5 "Time in bed (TIB)" window, and this lengthy TIB is potentially a real issue: Are you really lying in bed for most of that time? And how much actual sleep do you estimate you get during the 11.5 hours between bedtime and wake time? In other words, it may be that you are working too hard too increase your total sleep time (TST) and not enough on increasing your sleep efficiency. Note that sleep efficiency = (TST/TIB)*100%, and many people will not feel particularly rested unless their sleep efficiency is up around 85-90%.
You are a light sleeper sensitive to both noise and light and you sleep primarily in the daytime. You use earplugs to block the ambient noise in your sleeping environment. What do you do about the light since you sleep during the daytime? And given the size of your leaks, do they frequently wake you up? Or do you tend to sleep through them? And what (if anything) have you done to try to address the leak problems?
Finally, you say the sleep studies all show that you don't get much Delta (slow wave sleep or deep NREM sleep). Have you considered getting a zeo to get at least a crude estimate on how much delta sleep you are getting in your own bed on a regular basis?
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Machine: DreamStation BiPAP® Auto Machine |
Mask: Swift™ FX Nasal Pillow CPAP Mask with Headgear |
Additional Comments: PR System DreamStation and Humidifier. Max IPAP = 9, Min EPAP=4, Rise time setting = 3, minPS = 3, maxPS=5 |
Re: suicidally tired
I'm not sure you can completely remove the 4:30 am bedtime from the equation. Some people who work second shift or mid shift jobs and sleep during daylight hours NEVER get really good sleep due to difficulties in resetting circadian rhythms. I think some people's bodies simply resist sleeping during the day. My grandfather told me that he worked a second shift job for almost 15 years and never adapted completely to sleeping during the day.
One can prefer to go to bed at 4 am, but it doesn't mean the body is going to like it, even if it becomes a regular thing.
I'm not saying this is necessarily the OP's situation, but I don't think it can be summarily discounted.
One can prefer to go to bed at 4 am, but it doesn't mean the body is going to like it, even if it becomes a regular thing.
I'm not saying this is necessarily the OP's situation, but I don't think it can be summarily discounted.
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Mask: AirFit™ P10 Nasal Pillow CPAP Mask with Headgear |
Additional Comments: Backup & Travel Machines: PR System One Bipap Auto, S9 VPAP Auto, S9 Autoset, Oximeter CMS-50E |
Diagnosed March 2011, using APAP 14 - 16.5 cm, AFlex+ 2
Alt masks Swift FX pillows, Mirage FX nasal mask, Mirage Quattro full face mask
Alt masks Swift FX pillows, Mirage FX nasal mask, Mirage Quattro full face mask
Re: suicidally tired
I'm not as experienced as everyone else since I just got my PAP machine in July, but I know the feeling. Before I got my PAP machine, I frequently only slept every other day and would often go three days without sleep until I got narcoleptic and just fell out at which point I would get 10 hours of sleep. I could never get a good sleep during the night, but seemed to do better if I slept while the sun was out. The main reason for me being on disability is Chronic Fatigue Syndrome and I've had central sleep apnea since 1997 (it's amazing I was able to stay alive for 15 years without a PAP machine).
I ALWAYS felt horribly tired deep down to my bones and my GP read an article in a medical journal somewhere that said one of the problems of CFS is a low Vitamin D level. She prescribed 50,000 units of Vitamin D2 after blood tests confirmed my Vitamin D level was extremely low. It helped a lot.
The other problem with my sleep is that I am in constant pain. The problem is I stopped taking OTC pain meds a couple years ago after I realized my liver enzymes were a bit high and the pain meds were contributing to high liver enzymes. I had adjusted my life to manage the pain without meds, but I can tell you I don't get good sleep and I notice the times when I'm in so much pain I have to take half a vicodin (I'm highly sensitive to pharmaceuticals and can't take many of them) I sleep a LOT better and feel better. Luckily these instances are only once or twice every two months. I think the pain keeps me from getting or staying in deep REM sleep and getting more than 4 hours of sleep a night.
Just wanted to offer that information.
I ALWAYS felt horribly tired deep down to my bones and my GP read an article in a medical journal somewhere that said one of the problems of CFS is a low Vitamin D level. She prescribed 50,000 units of Vitamin D2 after blood tests confirmed my Vitamin D level was extremely low. It helped a lot.
The other problem with my sleep is that I am in constant pain. The problem is I stopped taking OTC pain meds a couple years ago after I realized my liver enzymes were a bit high and the pain meds were contributing to high liver enzymes. I had adjusted my life to manage the pain without meds, but I can tell you I don't get good sleep and I notice the times when I'm in so much pain I have to take half a vicodin (I'm highly sensitive to pharmaceuticals and can't take many of them) I sleep a LOT better and feel better. Luckily these instances are only once or twice every two months. I think the pain keeps me from getting or staying in deep REM sleep and getting more than 4 hours of sleep a night.
Just wanted to offer that information.
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Machine: DreamStation BiPAP® Auto Machine |
Mask: ComfortGel Blue Nasal CPAP Mask with Headgear |
Humidifier: DreamStation Heated Humidifier |
Additional Comments: DreamMapper & OSCAR |