Does a Longer Hose Require a Pressure Adjustment?

bic4jesus · Post by **bic4jesus** » Sat Jul 21, 2012 8:25 am

I just received and have began using my new Forma Full Face. My DME also sent me a new hose with it. It is a few feet longer than the previous one I was using. Last night, I woke up breathing rather heavily, as if I wasn't getting enough pressure. Now, I do have the S9. And if I recall, there are times when the S9 reduces pressure... correct?

So, do I need to now increase my pressure to accommodate the longer hose? My current pressure setting is @ 8. Thank you.

chunkyfrog · Post by **chunkyfrog** » Sat Jul 21, 2012 8:59 am

How long is the new hose?
Your machine may have specs on the maximum length you can use.
I can't imagine your DME supplying a hose that is not compatible with your machine.
They should know better!

greatunclebill · Post by **greatunclebill** » Sat Jul 21, 2012 9:00 am

should not matter. you're only talking about a few feet of hose to begin with.

Pugsy · Post by **Pugsy** » Sat Jul 21, 2012 9:37 am

I think that the machines can accommodate hoses up to 10 feet in length. Standard hose is 6 ft...lots of 8 foot hoses out there but I see 10 ft hoses being offered and haven't ever seen anything special about pressure needs changing with these lengths.
Perhaps just a coincidence that you experienced some breathing differences. It could be an air volume issue though. Just not enough movement of air for comfort. If it persists discuss with your provider.
The S9 has EPR which changes pressure upon exhale. So yes, it can reduce pressure based on EPR setting. Won't ever go below 4 cm though no matter what the setting.

GumbyCT · Post by **GumbyCT** » Sat Jul 21, 2012 10:32 am

bic4jesus wrote:I just received and have began using my new Forma Full Face. My DME also sent me a new hose with it. It is a few feet longer than the previous one I was using. Last night, I woke up breathing rather heavily, as if I wasn't getting enough pressure. Now, I do have the S9. And if I recall, there are times when the S9 reduces pressure... correct?

So, do I need to now increase my pressure to accommodate the longer hose? My current pressure setting is @ 8. Thank you.

When I tried a longer hose I ran into the same thing. A longer hose does increase the loss along the way. As does more volume such as using a humidifier. Not to mention some masks also have a hose attached.

ALL of this increases the volume and loss along the way to you.

You can either return to using the old hose - you did save it for a backup right?
Or try bumping up your pressure to accommodate.

Are you checking your results with software?

avi123 · Post by **avi123** » Sat Jul 21, 2012 1:03 pm

The S9 machines definitly need to know what kind of air hose that you're using. You input the name of the hose. The S9 Elite and S9 Autoset calculate the pressure drop along the hose and decuct it from the pressure at the flow blower outlet to show pressure at the mask. It also goes into the leaks calculations.

archangle · Post by **archangle** » Sat Jul 21, 2012 2:31 pm

I think hose length mostly affects thinks like bilevel, exhale relief, ASV, and APAP, but it affects manual pressure a little.

As long as you have the hose diameter set right, you're probably OK up to 10 feet of hose on an S9 Elite.

GumbyCT · Post by **GumbyCT** » Sat Jul 21, 2012 3:10 pm

GumbyCT wrote:When I tried a longer hose I ran into the same thing. A longer hose does increase the loss along the way. As does more volume such as using a humidifier. Not to mention some masks also have a hose attached.

ALL of this increases the volume and loss along the way to you.

I forgot to mention that in addition to reducing the effective pressure at your airway, increasing the hose length can/does affect an auto machine.

Meaning, some or all events may not be detected and your AHI could read zero but you will feel like days gone by. That is a clue that your therapy is no longer effective.

So do NOT let the software fool you on this.

Personally, I will not use a hose longer than 8ft with my auto. With straight pressures you can increase to compensate. With an auto the only way is to reduce the hose length or volume.

EDIT: I only use a 6ft hose with my F&P HC 150 Humidifier bc that adds an 18 in. hose besides the increased volume.

Said another way - a longer hose can kill you!!!

HTH

greatunclebill · Post by **greatunclebill** » Sat Jul 21, 2012 4:12 pm

has anybody tested with a manometer? if so, what was the loss?

flatag · Post by **flatag** » Sat Jul 21, 2012 5:32 pm

I would think that with the low pressures and flows and the comparatively large internal diameter of the hose used with cpap machines that any resulting pressure drop would be minimal under 10 feet of length.

bic4jesus · Post by **bic4jesus** » Sat Jul 21, 2012 6:28 pm

Thank you for your responses.

Just so there is no confusion for folks who might search this topic in the future I'm going to admit to a blond moment. And that is, my new hose is the same length as my old- 6 feet. I do not know why I thought it was longer. Maybe it's because it was more stiff, and did not coil up like my old one, making it seem longer. So, I apologize for that confusion... if it caused anyone to be confused. In the end, I've increased my pressure to 9. I'm going to see how that goes tonight. And yes, I am using the Res Scan software. Thanks again, you've been a tremendous help... as usual!

chunkyfrog · Post by **chunkyfrog** » Sat Jul 21, 2012 7:06 pm

Been there, too!

GumbyCT · Post by **GumbyCT** » Sat Jul 21, 2012 7:15 pm

lmao
Honesty is always best...I can deal mch better with honesty than made up stories. Me - I'll tell ya the truth until it hurts. People don't like that.

For the doubters - you can do just like I did. You have an auto and the software then all you need is an 8 or ten foot hose and a couple of nights on it. Don't have one? Double up 2 - 6 footers. Find a way.

The hard part is the processing... or understanding what changed and why you feel the way you do when the software says ZERO AHI and NO leaks.

Good Luck

napstress · Post by **napstress** » Sun Jul 22, 2012 4:31 pm

OK, to throw another idea into the mix: Is it possible for the hose to lengthen over time? I'd swear mine is getting longer. I use the "lasso method" of shaking out excess water when I clean it once a week.

RandyJ · Post by **RandyJ** » Sun Jul 22, 2012 5:19 pm

What type of mask were you using before? I'm just wondering if switching from a nasal or pillows to a full face could have given you a perception of less pressure?

For example, getting 14 cm directly into your nostrils feels different than getting the same pressure diffused between 2 airways (the nose and the mouth). Not that it is necessarily less effective (though in some cases it can be), but it definitely feels different.

If, instead, you went from one full face mask to another, I have not contributed anything useful to this thread.

Does a Longer Hose Require a Pressure Adjustment?

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