Positional or Nonpositional OSA: Do you know?

[kaiasgram]

I was just reading an article on SA and it made me curious about how many of you know for sure whether you have positional or nonpositional OSA. Some forum members have mentioned that their AHI during test night was worse with supine sleeping than side sleeping so these folks do know. I was diagnosed with a take-home watch-PAT device and don't know if my SA is positional or nonpositional. I haven't been examined by an ENT or pulmonologist. Without having an attended sleep study where you are observed in different sleep positions and your AHI in each position can be obtained, I'm not sure how you would know. Once on treatment, can you still see a difference when you're supine vs. on your side?

[zoocrewphoto]

I think somebody has mentioned that they use something that tells them their body position. Other than that, I have no way of knowing other than a sleep lab. I did the sleep lab, so I have the data and the position information.

That said, I can tell you that I don't sleep on my back nearly as much as I used to. I am much more comfortable on my side when sleeping with the mask. And I don't move nearly as much as I used to.

Oddly, the few times I have taken my mask off, or fallen asleep without it, I have awoken on my back. So, I seem to prefer sleeping on my back without the machine and on my side with the machine. No idea why.

[kaiasgram]

Thanks zoocrew -- Without knowing for sure whether my OSA is positional, I'm nervous about an upcoming 24-hour ph test because I won't be able to use my machine one night if I go through with it. They run a tube down into your esophagus and the other end comes out of your nose and is taped to your face in one or two places. So I wouldn't be able to create a seal with my mask. I mentioned my concern to my sleep doctor and she had a rather casual response: "So, just don't use your cpap that night, it's ok." But I don't feel ok about it as my progress this first month has been slow and fragile. I don't want a setback right now. I may declne the test, or hope for the best and spend the night in a recliner chair.

[49er]

Thanks zoocrew -- Without knowing for sure whether my OSA is positional, I'm nervous about an upcoming 24-hour ph test because I won't be able to use my machine one night if I go through with it. They run a tube down into your esophagus and the other end comes out of your nose and is taped to your face in one or two places. So I wouldn't be able to create a seal with my mask. I mentioned my concern to my sleep doctor and she had a rather casual response: "So, just don't use your cpap that night, it's ok." But I don't feel ok about it as my progress this first month has been slow and fragile. I don't want a setback right now. I may declne the test, or hope for the best and spend the night in a recliner chair.

Hi Kaiasgram,

I am perplexed since you said things aren't going well with cpap. If you were on a roll with using the machine, your reluctance to skip a night would make more sense to me.

Forgive me if I am missing something.

Regarding positional vs. nonpositional OSA, I also had a home test so I am in a similar position to you. Due to having difficulties sleeping on the machine, I have wondered if I should try sleeping on my side to see what happens. But it is just too uncomfortable and I am not in a mood to do trial and error with side sleeping items that I doubt can be returned for a money back guarantee.

49er

[Julie]

How many years went by when you had apnea and didn't use your machine til you got diagnosed?

One night won't matter to anything except that you'll likely be more tired the next day... and a manometry is important to get results from if you have GERD.

[Wednesday4Ever]

My first post on this site (must be an excuse for some kind of drink)!

I had a night of sleep study using a "Unicorder" headgear device and this clearly showed my OSA to be far worse when supine (laid on my back). The mad thing is that, now I am using a CPAP machine, I can only sleep on my back because if I ever turn onto my side then the mask leaks massively. Paradoxical, isn't it?

[BasementDwellingGeek]

I think somebody has mentioned that they use something that tells them their body position

There are several of us tinkering with accelerometers.
viewtopic/t78748/Torso-position-determi ... meter.html

[ChicagoGranny]

Positional or Nonpositional OSA: Do you know?

New postby kaiasgram

What is your precise definition of "positional apnea"?

From reading many posts in cpaptalk I don't think members have a clear definition.

[zoocrewphoto]

I had a night of sleep study using a "Unicorder" headgear device and this clearly showed my OSA to be far worse when supine (laid on my back). The mad thing is that, now I am using a CPAP machine, I can only sleep on my back because if I ever turn onto my side then the mask leaks massively. Paradoxical, isn't it?

Tell us which mask you are using and where it leaks. People here can help you fix it. I used to have trouble with leaks every night, and I don't have many problems now. And I sleep mostly on my side. The leaks can be solved.

[zoocrewphoto]

What is your precise definition of "positional apnea"?

From reading many posts in cpaptalk I don't think members have a clear definition.

As I understand it, this means that the severity of sleep apnea depends on the position. In other words, for many people, it is typically worse when sleeping on the back (supine), than when sleeping on the side. I haven't seen anything that implies something else.

[ChicagoGranny]

As I understand it, this means that the severity of sleep apnea depends on the position. In other words, for many people, it is typically worse when sleeping on the back (supine), than when sleeping on the side. I haven't seen anything that implies something else.

Keep reading.

A. Some have posted here indicating they thing positional apnea means you breathe normally by avoiding backsleeping.

B. Some have posted that the severity is less while avoiding backsleeping (your definition).

C. Some have posted that pressure requirements are less while avoiding backsleeping.

You can find studies where the researchers say OSA patients with AHI<5 (untreated) while avoiding backsleeping have positional apnea (see A. above).

You can find studies where the researchers say a drop of 50% in AHI (untreated) while avoiding backsleeping is positional apnea.

Personally I like to talk about "degrees" of positional apnea. Every individual is different. My concern is that each individual get effective and efficient treatment. We should avoid giving newcomers the idea that avoiding backsleeping will cure their apnea. They need to understand exactly what degree of positional apnea they have and the most efficient/effective way to treat it.


So I will ask the OP again,

Positional or Nonpositional OSA: Do you know?

New postby kaiasgram

What is your precise definition of "positional apnea"?

[Wednesday4Ever]

I had a night of sleep study using a "Unicorder" headgear device and this clearly showed my OSA to be far worse when supine (laid on my back). The mad thing is that, now I am using a CPAP machine, I can only sleep on my back because if I ever turn onto my side then the mask leaks massively. Paradoxical, isn't it?

Tell us which mask you are using and where it leaks. People here can help you fix it. I used to have trouble with leaks every night, and I don't have many problems now. And I sleep mostly on my side. The leaks can be solved.

Thanks. I will check it as soon as I get home and post again as soon as | can. Apart from anything else, the air leaks are ver annoying because they wake me up.

[Julie]

Someone who pretty well knows what they're talking about says (not here) that if you have no desats then you don't have apnea, or at least may have only positional apnea which a change in position could make the whole difference to... so if you have an oximeter, use it in different positions for ?? a week at time for each and see how things go.

[chunkyfrog]

Hubby's apnea is nearly all on his back; mine--in all stages and all positions.

[MaxDarkside]

I think somebody has mentioned that they use something that tells them their body position

There are several of us tinkering with accelerometers.
viewtopic/t78748/Torso-position-determi ... meter.html

I resemble that remark and have proven using an accelerometer that my apneas are nearly 100% positional (nearly all while on my back).