Wheat Sensitivity?

[ladylucy]

Hi everyone,
I've posted here before once or twice, but not much. At the risk of starting out negative here, I guess I'm just in denial about my situation and haven't felt it would help to talk about it, because I don't think it's possible to resolve it. (because the insurance/money situation frustrates me the most.) I still somewhat feel that way, but I do have a new thought to throw out there. I'll reintroduce myself first...

I am 51 and have Complex Sleep Apnea. I know I've had Central Sleep Apnea all my life, and I used to wake up gasping for air as a child. But as an adult, the OSA has become a factor as well. I'm about 15 pounds overweight, nothing earthshaking, but I'm sure it doesn't help. I have had my CPAP machine since Dec 2010. It's been a struggle all along, mostly with masks. I go through very short stretches where all is well, and very long stretches where I simply cannot get through more than a few hours with it.

Lately, it's a hopeless case to use that machine for very different reasons. There are two issues right now - post nasal drip and nights with a LOT of events.

I think the post nasal drip is from spring allergies; I had the problem last spring too. We never had a winter here in the Northeast this year, so the very early spring has been horrible for many people. Clearing my throat all night is difficult with the CPAP air being forced into my air passage. I usually just have to forget the CPAP on those nights, which are many lately. Without the CPAP, the post nasal drip has not bothered me and I've slept quite well. There is much concern and frustration with this though, because I worry about the insurance company and my lack of machine use. Telling them that I am using the machine so I can get supplies is not accurate, but I need to keep plugging away with this until I have exhausted all possibilities.

Anyway,... Most importantly I have the occasional nights of the many events that keep me up... Shortly after I fall asleep, I gasp for air... EVEN WITH THE CPAP ON. I find this to be very traumatic with the mask on. I am beginning to suspect that this is more of a problem when I eat wheat. I have been trying to go wheat free for the last few months and I have slept pretty well. But I'm not perfect, so there are days when I eat wheat. Well, yesterday was Easter and I went stupid crazy eating carbs, which mostly was wheat. Interestingly, last night was awful. I was up all night having events just seconds after falling asleep, over and over. The CPAP was useless. I have not directly tied wheat-eating with apnea for myself, but I do suspect it. They say that grains, particularly wheat, cause inflammation, so I can imagine that could play into an OSA situation. I plan to be more diligent in staying away from wheat to see if it makes any difference. Will keep a diary. It would be wonderful if avoiding wheat would alleviate my problems. These darn spring allergies might muck up the experiment, but I have to live with that I guess.

I wonder if anyone else has come to a similar "discovery."

(It has occurred to me that wheat could be causing the post nasal drip too, but I get that when I don't eat wheat, so I don't think there's a correlation.)

Thoughts anyone?
Thanks,
Lucy

[Janknitz]

Read the book Wheat Belly by Dr. William Davis. Wheat may very well be a problem for you. TOTAL removal of wheat and other grains may make a huge difference in your health. I doubt it will "cure" your complex apnea but it may vastly improve your overall health and make using CPAP much, much easier.

The key is totally eliminate wheat. Little cheats can derail your efforts. It's one of those "do or do not, there is no try" situations. Sound impossible, but it's not really. The changes to your body (after an initial few days of feeling WORSE) feel so great that it's self perpetuating. And there are tons of recipes on line (look on Paleo sites) do that you will find things to eat without resorting to processed bread substitutes.

Give your body a chance. Commit to trying this for a month and see how you feel. My guess is 1 month will find you feeling 100% better, and you may have fewer interferences with using CPAP at that point.

[Therapist]

I am beginning to suspect that this is more of a problem when I eat wheat.

A small percentage of the population has gluten intolerance and/or wheat allergy. In your opening post you cite a very weak case for either condition.

You mention no intestinal problems which is the dominant symptom of gluten intolerance. (See this article for a full list of signs and symptoms http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gluten_sensitivity . )

You mention only one sign of wheat allergy (post nasal drip). (A full list of signs and symptoms is here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wheat_alle ... d_Symptoms .) However, it is highly unlikely that you have wheat allergy. With the spring pollen season upon us, it is much more likely that you have pollen allergies.

A few of the people that have gluten intolerance and wheat allergy love to run through the village square warning everyone that they have it. This is a fad that will some day pass.

You need to get involved in the forum and get your CPAP therapy optimized. You are worrying about a very unlikely "wheat problem" while letting a known and present deadly danger, sleep apnea, go very poorly treated ("very long stretches where I simply cannot get through more than a few hours with it").

Why don't you start a new thread outlining the status of your CPAP therapy (including the nasal drip problem) and work earnestly toward getting a top notch therapy for your known and present deadly danger and forget this silly wheat allergy issue?

Best of luck,

[BlackSpinner]

I am beginning to suspect that this is more of a problem when I eat wheat.

A small percentage of the population has gluten intolerance and/or wheat allergy. In your opening post you cite a very weak case for either condition.


A few of the people that have gluten intolerance and wheat allergy love to run through the village square warning everyone that they have it. This is a fad that will some day pass.

You need to get involved in the forum and get your CPAP therapy optimized. You are worrying about a very unlikely "wheat problem" while letting a known and present deadly danger, sleep apnea, go very poorly treated ("very long stretches where I simply cannot get through more than a few hours with it").

Why don't you start a new thread outlining the status of your CPAP therapy (including the nasal drip problem) and work earnestly toward getting a top notch therapy for your known and present deadly danger and forget this silly wheat allergy issue?

Best of luck,

You need to get up to date on the latest research read this instead of posting mis information
http://www.amazon.com/Wheat-Belly-Lose- ... 1609611543

Allergies and intolerances to wheat are much more common then previously suspected and Celiacs disease is up 4 fold from the 60's

[RandyJ]

ladylucy,

For what it's worth my allergies have been worse this winter/spring than any year I can remember...

Also, I gave up wheat/gluten/yeast/dairy 6 weeks ago and it hasn't made a difference in my congestion, so I am chalking it up to allergies. Also, the nurse in the allergist office where I go told me that there are many allergens that they don't test for and don't treat, since the exposure (pollen period) is brief, less than a month, and you could be sensitive to some of those things (dogwoods, magnolia, etc), depending on the pollen profile in your area.

I wouldn't presume to tell you that your suspicions of wheat sensitivity or allergy are silly - an elimination diet as Janknitz says above will help you to figure that out, as would a blood test for wheat/gluten sensitivity. I can only say that I don't think it was an issue for me.

I would definitely have a plan to deal with the allergies if they are such a big issue for you; possible treatments include antihistamines (Zyrtec, Claritin, etc), antihistamine nose spray (Astelin), showering before you go to bed to wash away any allergens that might be on your body, nasal irrigation to do the same for your nose, and desensitization injections (if your specific allergies warrant it). Obviously, a visit to an allergist would be required for the injections.

I can't see your equipment/mask profile, so I'm wondering if you are using a full face mask? I find that having a full face mask is essential for when congestion is too bad and I can't breathe well through my nose.

Good luck and hang in there...

[NightMonkey]

I can't see your equipment/mask profile, so I'm wondering if you are using a full face mask? I find that having a full face mask is essential for when congestion is too bad and I can't breathe well through my nose.

Having post nasal drip and using a nasal interface may be ladylucy's primary problem. I agree that there is nothing in her posts that indicate a problem with wheat.

Get the CPAP therapy optimized. Get the data out of that machine to see what is happening with the therapy!

ladylucy, Do you know about "data"? Do you regularly use "data"?

[Kody]

I am 51 and have Complex Sleep Apnea. I know I've had Central Sleep Apnea all my life, and I used to wake up gasping for air as a child.

Lucy I would think if you have Complex Sleep Apnea you should be using an ASV of some kind to deal with the Centrals instead of just a regular Cpap machine, unless there's something I'm missing here. The right machine for the right job would be the first step. I was on a regular Cpap machine at first, and it made things worse for me. Might want to talk to your Dr. more about this.

[ladylucy]

Janknitz, Thanks for your thoughts! I have totally eliminated grains before for about 6 months and felt quite good. I've never fully gone the way of Grok, but I know how to bake with nut flours and such. It's a challenge, but worth it. Wheat has been rare for me in the past few months, but I've blown it a few times. You're right, I'd have to commit fully. I may have sounded uncommitted, but when I really commit, I can do it. I know that I have to do it now. I see a nutritionist who is actually a doctor of bio-chemistry, and she's on the paleo diet. She recommends that I remove wheat from my diet. She actually says that all grains cause inflammation in all people, and humans are not made to eat grains (which she prefers to refer to as seeds). I told her that's impossible for me to completely cut out from a practicality and financial standpoint, so she said to cut out wheat. I am ready to do it to figure it out. I've heard of the book you mentioned. Sounds like a good one.
I guess I kinda knew that I'd probably still have to use the CPAP, but hopeful that my apnea events wouldn't be so severe as they've become in the last year.

Therapist - I don't remember saying that I have a wheat allergy (which is pretty rare), nor did I say I had a gluten intolerance. Sometimes people have a sensitivity or intolerance to a food that is not an allergy. It might cause inflammation as I mentioned in my first post.
I have a thick file at the doctor's office. Most people who post cannot realistically include EVERYTHING about themselves in their first post. For the record though, I didn't mention my migraines, tinnitus, reflux, intraventricular conduction delay, arthritis, eczema, environmental allergies, hives, chest pains, joint pains, and itchy skin. I'm sure there's more; I'm just one big ball of misery. As an intelligent adult, I will decide how much I will get involved in the forum, based on my personal needs, my time, my life, and the advice I get. But if people want to help others, it would be best not to refer condescendingly to others' thoughts or questions as "silly."

Thank you, BlackSpinner!

RandyJ - Thanks. I have struggled with allergies all my life. I have been tested. I have done elimination diets, even one where I could only eat seven food items for weeks. I have lived in the same place. I did injections for 9years. I know pretty much what I'm allergic to environmentally. I usually don't have spring allergies, but some years I do. This year, I just have post nasal drip. I could take antihistamines, and I do when the seasonals are a big problem, but most of them give me headaches. BUT, maybe I'll rethink the antihistamines again just for the next month or so. I can tolerate Zyrtec ok. As mentioned above, I have done this wheat elimination before. But not when I suspected it might affect my apnea.
I have all my equipment entered here. You can't see it? I usually use nasal pillows, but have been going back to trying the full face mask because I open my mouth too much. Tricks to keep my mouth closed just cause stress with the post nasal drip. Last night, I kept gasping and gasping with apneas even with the full face mask... but I had no post nasal drip.

NightMonkey - Thank you. I think I may have have a sensitivity to a food that is not an allergy. It might cause inflammation or headaches or whatever. There aren't tests for that. You just have to try elimination.
Yeah, I know about the data. I know I should get more familiar with it. I don't think I use the machine enough to even have any significant data. That mask usually gets ripped off before I even turn out the light.

Please don't anyone come down on me because I said I don't review my data. I know what I should be doing. I really need to address the fact that I can't keep the mask ON MY FACE right now. That's my primary objective as far as CPAP goes. Once I get that figured out, I will look at the data more.

Otherwise I will be cutting out wheat completely and I'll see how I feel.

So I guess the answer to my question so far is that nobody has found that wheat or another food sensitivity has had any affect on their apnea... that they know of.

Now I know why I don't post here very much, I have spent my entire morning doing this. It's too time consuming. I have to go and do some work or I won't get paid for today. LOL.

Thanks so much everyone for your help.
Lucy

[ladylucy]

Thanks, Kody. That's something I've never heard of. I'll look into it.

[NightMonkey]

Please don't anyone come down on me because I said I don't review my data. I know what I should be doing. I really need to address the fact that I can't keep the mask ON MY FACE right now.

If you looked at the data it might show that you are having severe events during the short time you are able to use the mask. This could be why you reflexively take the mask off.

You do realize you can ignore any advice that is given on an internet forum? And should ignore much of it?

[ladylucy]

Sure, NightMonkey, I do not doubt that the data would show severe events. I actually don't need the data to tell me that I am not breathing. It happens just when I have barely even fallen asleep.

And yes, I DEFINITELY know I don't have to follow everyone's advice. That piece of advice is the best here. LOL! I'm a pretty independent and intelligent gal, so I'll do what makes sense to me.

[BlackSpinner]

Sure, NightMonkey, I do not doubt that the data would show severe events. I actually don't need the data to tell me that I am not breathing. It happens just when I have barely even fallen asleep.

And yes, I DEFINITELY know I don't have to follow everyone's advice. That piece of advice is the best here. LOL! I'm a pretty independent and intelligent gal, so I'll do what makes sense to me.

However looking at the data will tell you When you have severe events, what kind of severe events and allow you to tailor your pressure.
Many people have Central apneas as they are falling asleep, it is part of the transition into deeper sleep. There is not much one can do about them except to accept the fact. However if these kind of CA's are all through the night you maybe on the wrong machine. Usually you have to "fail" at cpap before the insurance will cough up for the more expensive machine.

[NightMonkey]

I DEFINITELY know I don't have to follow everyone's advice.

So I can ignore this bit of advice that I received on an internet forum ->

Please don't anyone come down on me because I said I don't review my data.

[OutaSync]

ladylucy,

You say in your first post that you know you have Complex Sleep Apnea. Then why doesn't your doctor have you on a machine that treats CSA? That might be most of your problem. You have the wrong machine. That happened to me, too, so I know what it feels like to struggle and struggle trying to make it work and then to find out that the machine they put me on would not, could not, treat CSA.

Good luck to you,
Bev

[Janknitz]

Personally I don't know if I really buy into the "humans are not made to eat grains" thing, or that we shouldn't eat them because our distant ancestors didn't.

But what I have learned is that the wheat (and other grains) we eat today has been changed signficantly because of industrial farming, and the changes may adversely affect some people's health. It is not that difficult to do a simple n=1 experiment to see if you do better without them, and if you do, then go for it.

I've eliminated grains and I see a marked difference in my skeletal pain. From a constant 7 on a scale of 10 to NONE--zip, zero, zilch. That's enough for me. I still have nasal allergies, weight is coming off excruciatingly slowly, I still have OSA. But I'm not in constant pain anymore (unless I cheat).

If eliminating grains/wheat helps you that's great, if it doesn't really, the wheat will still be there when you're done with your experiment.

Meanwhile, keep working on your apnea treatment--the combination of good diet AND optimal apnea treatment will make you feel SO much better.