Off Klonopin, Restless Leg is back, more deep sleep

[danjfoley]

I have stopped taking klonpin for a 2nd time now. I've been off it for 2 days. This time I have a zeo to see the effects on my sleep stages. They are:

- every day i get more and more deep sleep. Usually i get around 40 min, last night I got 90 min.
- My rem is starting to happen in intervals like it should, not just all at the end of the night, and non elsewhere.

So that's good.. but my restless leg is coming back. I woke up last night and had a harder time falling alseep due to my legs.

Any help on what i might be able to do to help the restless leg without using klonpin?

[danjfoley]

PS: my ahi seems to be worse off klonpin. 6.24 last night, 5.17 the night before.

I used to be getting around 3.

I notice that i wake up to my mask leaking (swift fx) leaking around my nose a lot.

[Maxie]

I hope that you can find help as I know how restless leg can interfere with your sleep. My arthritis medication causes it and every once in a while I skip a day or two until the RLS goes away and start taking it again until the next episode. It's rather strange.

[sickwithapnea17]

is there another way to treat restless leg? I was getting PLMD on my studies, but the klonopin might cause brain damage and dependence and slow your thinking

so the restless leg can wake you up or prevent you from getting deep sleep? I seem to sleep better on klonopin and wake up feeling better

[danjfoley]

What's more imported? Getting more deep sleep? Or not waking up with restless lets? I know the answer is probably how to feel in the morning right?

I'm having a hard time with that. seems like my answers are either: A. i feel like crap or B. i feel less crappy.

So far i feel less crappy more then not. But i have yet to wake up feeling "good"

I'm not exasperated anymore, but i still feel like i could lie down and go back to sleep. I don't. But i am sure i could.

[sickwithapnea17]

I think I feel better in the morning after taking klonopin than ambien, maybe it's about the same as restoril
but I still feel really tired and exhausted during the day and don't have energy and still foggy
I've been trying trytophan too but it seems to have bad side effects

[VVV]

I have stopped taking klonpin for a 2nd time now. I've been off it for 2 days. This time I have a zeo to see the effects on my sleep stages. They are:

- every day i get more and more deep sleep. Usually i get around 40 min, last night I got 90 min.
- My rem is starting to happen in intervals like it should, not just all at the end of the night, and non elsewhere.

So that's good.. but my restless leg is coming back. I woke up last night and had a harder time falling alseep due to my legs.

Any help on what i might be able to do to help the restless leg without using klonpin?

Are you working with a sleep doctor to find the right drug for your case of RLS?

My sleep doc explained to me that there is a standard protocol she uses. The protocol starts with one class of drugs and if the first one you take works then that is it. If it does not work for you, then you continue down the list.

I started with Mirapex and it was a disaster. Next on the list was klonopin and it was a partial success but I complained about next day drowsiness and did not want to increase the dose to last all night.

Next the doc prescribed gabapentin (Neurontin) and that worked miracles. I take 2 x 300 mg at bedtime and there are no noticeable negative side effects the next day.

It may be time for you to experiment with some different drugs with your doc's advice. It is a matter of finding what is right for you.

Also make sure you practice good sleep hygiene and avoid all caffeine and sedating antihistamines.

Here is a long thread if you want to do some reading about my experience - viewtopic.php?f=1&t=69730&st=0&sk=t&sd= ... gabapentin

[danjfoley]

thanks for that. I think i will call my sleep dr. I have my follow up appointment with him in April. He wanted me to go off all sleep drugs. I suppose that is to establish a base line.

I believe i have to give it a few more weeks off klonpin to see if i'm not just experiencing withdraw.

[VVV]

Dan,

I should add that I never realized how badly RLS was affecting me until I found a drug that treated me well. There is something about a condition that comes on slowly you just begin to think everyone else feels like that and accept it as normal.

I also thought for years that CPAP was causing me to be uncomfortable in bed. With gabapentin being a success for me I now know better - RLS was causing me some significant problems.

Don't forget about sleep hygiene and avoiding all caffeine and sedating antihistamines like Benadryl and maybe some others.

Best of luck for a speedy resolution,

[sickwithapnea17]

yeah maybe klonopin is too dangerous. is PLMD like an eplipeptic or epilepsy disorder that must be treated by medication?
I think it is disturbing my sleep somehow and I notice it when I'm about to fall asleep- I start twitching and wake up????

[LittleRedTruck]

I know that must be a difficult problem. I wish you well with it. I don't pretend to have a solution, so just throw a thought out. Im 74 and when I have leg pain, I realize I must get back on my exercise program. For legs I walk a mile on treadmill 3 days a week. I also do a weight lifting program and 300 ab crunches. I sleep so peacefully those nites then. Is their a chance some of this could be improved without pills. I know what works for me is not for everyone. So many people suffer from multiple health problems. I just wonder if exercising might not help some of the leg problems and overall sleep architecture. Best wishes, Dan

[fiberfan]

Any help on what i might be able to do to help the restless leg without using klonpin?

There is a little anecdotal evidence that a tens unit can help rls and plmd. I get more plmd help than I do rls help but the rls help is enough that with consistent use I have cut my use of painkillers by 2/3. I haven't been able to reduce the mirapex but with the tens until the mirapex does a better job of controlling my rls. I can't up the mirapex because I then get increased rls problems a few hours before the time I normally take the mirapex. In a diagnostic sleep study a couple of years ago I had as many leg movement related arousals as I did breathing related arousals so controlling the plmd is important for my sleep quality.

[sickwithapnea17]

but you see there may be long term side effects to all these meds- like if you take klonopin for years maybe your thinking is permanently slowed??

is there an anxiety component to central apnea? it seems that klonopin does help but it isn't a cure- I think xanax was less good
for me months of exercise and fairly intense cardio did not cure the sleep apnea or losing 20 pounds to BMI 24
maybe there is some abnormal brain activity that causes central apneas?
what is a tens unit?

[kteague]

TENS = Transcutaneous Electrical Nerve Stimulation

I am one of those included in "anecdotal evidence" for using TENS therapy for my RLS and PLMD. I've been fortunate to be off of my nighttime meds for nearly a year and a half, and rely totally on the TENS for management. Is it 100% effective? No. If I was pressed to rate its effectiveness I'd give it 3.5 to 4.5 stars out of 5, based on what kind of night I've had. Even so, my worse night now is better than my best night on meds. I still have to be responsible about my coffee intake, and take supplements to keep my iron up and take a calcium-magnesium-zinc-Vit D combo.

You're not likely to find a doctor familiar with using the TENS for this as it's not yet mainstream. I am self-treated, through trial and error, and still am not certain I have optimized what the device could do for me, as I lack professional guidance on things like recommended electrode placement and settings. But I'm doing the best I can, and I have had input from other TENS users on the board.

My first recommendation for anyone considering going the non pharmaceutical route is to NOT go off meds abruptly, particularly dopamine agonists, especially if from higher doses. When they say to wean off meds, there is a reason. I ignored that warning and it introduced other problems. And expect a time of transition that may get pretty miserable. On the other side of it I can say it was worth it, but believe me, during the weaning and trial and error phase I wasn't sure I'd made the right decision. But it turned out to be right for me.

[Sleep2Die4]

Is their a chance some of this could be improved without pills.

Yes, pills are very commonly a coverup for lack of exercise, poor diet and poor sleep hygiene. These should all be undertaken and then see if the pills can be dropped.

But there are maladies which need pills for treatment. I have a friend who has RLS. He manages his health very well and is active but still needs some pills to control his RLS. I should see him in the next week and will ask him what he takes.

kteague

That is interesting about the TENS unit. I am not familiar with it at all.

I wonder if that could be used for HGNS? (Maybe the redneck in me is showing.)