Does inusrance compensate for sleepless nights

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robysue
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Re: Does inusrance compensate for sleepless nights

Post by robysue » Fri Mar 02, 2012 8:16 am

LSAT wrote:I think the usual requirement is averaging 4 hours per night for 30 days. You will need the machine to show 120+ hours at the end of 30 days.
The usual "compliance" for insurance purposes is not a simple total number of hours. It is usually tied to the distribution of those hours across a sufficient number of days. One common standard is At least four hours per 24-hour day on at least 70% of the 24-hour days during a 30 day period. Using the machine for 11 hours on 10 days and not at all on the remaining 20 days gives a total usage of 121 hours, but will not meet compliance requirements for most insurance companies. Note that 70% of 30 days is 21 days. Using the machine for exactly four hours on 21 of the days and not at all on the remaining 9 days gives a total usage of 84 hours, but probably will meet compliance requirements for most insurance companies.

To the OP: You need to find out directly from your insurance company what is required for compliance purposes. Don't take the DME's word for what they require and don't take the doc's word. When you are on the phone you might want to ask for a supervisor and tell them you are worried about compliance because of the large number of days you and your daughters sleep in the car at the community shelter due to tornado watches/warnings and ask them what kind of documentation you will need to provide to document the days where compliance is difficult because of the weather.

Once you know exactly what your insurance company's rules are, then you'll be in a position to plan for them. Some tips that might help:

1) Ask your DME about whether the machine they provide can be used in a car with an appropriate power adapter. I've had no trouble using my PR System One machine on cross country drives done at night, for example. When I'm not driving I simply plug my PR S1 into the same power converter that hubby uses for his laptop when I'm driving. And it works fine. Of course, the car is on so I'm not draining the battery. I don't know how long the car's battery would last if it were powering my BiPAP when the car itself was not running. And, of course, it's not a good idea to run the car for extended periods of time in the underground parking structure at the community shelter.

2) Contact the folks in charge of the community shelter and explain the situation to them. They may be able to tell you where you can park in order to have some kind of access to a power outlet. In that case, buy a heavy duty extension cord of the appropriate length and keep it stashed in the car with whatever other emergency supplies you usually take with you when the weather is threatening.

3) On the days following particularly nasty nights where you've been at the community shelter all night long and when you have not been able to use the machine for the required four hours, plan on using the machine for four hours during the daytime, maybe while the girls are in school. Note that the four hours of usage does not need to be in one continuous chunk to satisfy most insurance companies. Nor do you have to prove you were asleep when using the machine. But do note that the machines can tell the difference between being left ON for four hours without a person attached to the other end of the hose (blower hours) and being USED for four hours---i.e. running for four hours WITH a person attached to the other end of the hose.

4) Give some thought to possibly asking for the Transcend II travel CPAP as your main machine. This machine does record full efficacy data (although you don't get the wave form). A sample report is shown at https://88559364175b176f8341-7518c0400f ... report.pdf. And although it is not part of the standard machine bundle, this particular CPAP has a small overnight battery available for $295 from our host. Also there is also a power adapter available from our host for $130 that the manufacturer claims will allow the Transcend to run overnight off of a vehicle's battery without depleting the battery.

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NightMonkey
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Re: Does inusrance compensate for sleepless nights

Post by NightMonkey » Fri Mar 02, 2012 8:40 am

robysue wrote:
LSAT wrote:I think the usual requirement is averaging 4 hours per night for 30 days. You will need the machine to show 120+ hours at the end of 30 days.
The usual "compliance" for insurance purposes is not a simple total number of hours. It is usually tied to the distribution of those hours across a sufficient number of days. One common standard is At least four hours per 24-hour day on at least 70% of the 24-hour days during a 30 day period. Using the machine for 11 hours on 10 days and not at all on the remaining 20 days gives a total usage of 121 hours, but will not meet compliance requirements for most insurance companies. Note that 70% of 30 days is 21 days. Using the machine for exactly four hours on 21 of the days and not at all on the remaining 9 days gives a total usage of 84 hours, but probably will meet compliance requirements for most insurance companies.

To the OP: You need to find out directly from your insurance company what is required for compliance purposes. Don't take the DME's word for what they require and don't take the doc's word. When you are on the phone you might want to ask for a supervisor and tell them you are worried about compliance because of the large number of days you and your daughters sleep in the car at the community shelter due to tornado watches/warnings and ask them what kind of documentation you will need to provide to document the days where compliance is difficult because of the weather.

Once you know exactly what your insurance company's rules are, then you'll be in a position to plan for them. Some tips that might help:

1) Ask your DME about whether the machine they provide can be used in a car with an appropriate power adapter. I've had no trouble using my PR System One machine on cross country drives done at night, for example. When I'm not driving I simply plug my PR S1 into the same power converter that hubby uses for his laptop when I'm driving. And it works fine. Of course, the car is on so I'm not draining the battery. I don't know how long the car's battery would last if it were powering my BiPAP when the car itself was not running. And, of course, it's not a good idea to run the car for extended periods of time in the underground parking structure at the community shelter.

2) Contact the folks in charge of the community shelter and explain the situation to them. They may be able to tell you where you can park in order to have some kind of access to a power outlet. In that case, buy a heavy duty extension cord of the appropriate length and keep it stashed in the car with whatever other emergency supplies you usually take with you when the weather is threatening.

3) On the days following particularly nasty nights where you've been at the community shelter all night long and when you have not been able to use the machine for the required four hours, plan on using the machine for four hours during the daytime, maybe while the girls are in school. Note that the four hours of usage does not need to be in one continuous chunk to satisfy most insurance companies. Nor do you have to prove you were asleep when using the machine. But do note that the machines can tell the difference between being left ON for four hours without a person attached to the other end of the hose (blower hours) and being USED for four hours---i.e. running for four hours WITH a person attached to the other end of the hose.

4) Give some thought to possibly asking for the Transcend II travel CPAP as your main machine. This machine does record full efficacy data (although you don't get the wave form). A sample report is shown at https://88559364175b176f8341-7518c0400f ... report.pdf. And although it is not part of the standard machine bundle, this particular CPAP has a small overnight battery available for $295 from our host. Also there is also a power adapter available from our host for $130 that the manufacturer claims will allow the Transcend to run overnight off of a vehicle's battery without depleting the battery.

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Re: Does inusrance compensate for sleepless nights

Post by squid13 » Fri Mar 02, 2012 8:46 am

archangle wrote:Tornado warnings mean the national weather service seen indications of a possible tornado, usually on Doppler radar.
Tornado Watch means conditions are favorable for a Tornado, Tornado Warning means you have a Tornado on Doppler radar. This is the way it's explained where I live, maybe you have something different.

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Re: Does inusrance compensate for sleepless nights

Post by NightMonkey » Fri Mar 02, 2012 9:10 am

squid13 wrote:
archangle wrote:Tornado warnings mean the national weather service seen indications of a possible tornado, usually on Doppler radar.
Tornado Watch means conditions are favorable for a Tornado, Tornado Warning means you have a Tornado on Doppler radar. This is the way it's explained where I live, maybe you have something different.

You are both saying the same thing.

Meteorologists use Doppler radar as an indication of a possible tornado. They require a video or a visit to the site to confirm a tornado.
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Cait
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Re: Does inusrance compensate for sleepless nights

Post by Cait » Fri Mar 02, 2012 9:12 am

My supplier says that insurance is very black and white. You NEED To have 4hours of usage for 21 days out of 30 days of USAGE.. so 30 days its turned on.. have to be 21 days of 4hours

they dont tell you that and you get screwed over.

<- SPEAKS FROM ANGRY TRUTH

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Re: Does inusrance compensate for sleepless nights

Post by BlackSpinner » Fri Mar 02, 2012 10:06 am

Cait wrote:My supplier says that insurance is very black and white. You NEED To have 4hours of usage for 21 days out of 30 days of USAGE.. so 30 days its turned on.. have to be 21 days of 4hours

they dont tell you that and you get screwed over.

<- SPEAKS FROM ANGRY TRUTH
A machine that is not used is a piece of decor and definitely should not be paid for by insurance. Suck it up and use it every time you sleep.

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Re: Does inusrance compensate for sleepless nights

Post by NightMonkey » Fri Mar 02, 2012 11:43 am

BlackSpinner wrote:
A machine that is not used is a piece of decor and definitely should not be paid for by insurance. Suck it up and use it every time you sleep.
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archangle
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Re: Does inusrance compensate for sleepless nights

Post by archangle » Fri Mar 02, 2012 3:45 pm

squid13 wrote:
archangle wrote:Tornado warnings mean the national weather service seen indications of a possible tornado, usually on Doppler radar.
Tornado Watch means conditions are favorable for a Tornado, Tornado Warning means you have a Tornado on Doppler radar. This is the way it's explained where I live, maybe you have something different.
If by that, you mean, "a tornado warning means there is a tornado," they explained it wrong. That's not too surprising, since the media often oversimplifies what they say to the public. Unfortunately, that can be like the boy who cried wolf.

The national weather service says "Radar or satellite indication and/or reliable spotter reports of a tornado."

As I say, probably 1 in 10 tornado warnings involve an actual tornado.

If you listen to the warnings, they'll tell you why they issued it. I looked at some today and they said thinks like "thunderstorm capable of producing a tornado," "trained spotter report," etc.

Doppler radar doesn't usually show a definitive indication of a tornado for many reasons. There are a lot of things that give them a strong clue, but the signs on the radar happen a lot of times when no tornado actually appears.

There is also a time delay between the actual storm, and how quickly the radar can complete its scan and compute the data. The NWS wants to issue a warning before the tornado actually hits the ground. If they wait until it actually forms, it's too late for the people on the first part of the storm track.

I don't want to be pedantic, but people's lives are at stake and misinformation kills on weather warnings.

I have attended the NWS spotter training class, have the spotter certificate hanging on my wall, and have been in the local NWS office and touched the Doppler radar control panel. I watch the radars and the alerts whenever there's nasty weather around here.

Yes, a warning should get your attention. It doesn't necessarily mean there is a tornado yet.

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Re: Does inusrance compensate for sleepless nights

Post by archangle » Fri Mar 02, 2012 3:48 pm

BlackSpinner wrote:A machine that is not used is a piece of decor and definitely should not be paid for by insurance. Suck it up and use it every time you sleep.
On the other hand, if someone's trying to use the machine, doesn't get 70% usage and gives up because the insurance takes it away, we all lose because our insurance rates and taxes go up when they end up with a heart attack or stroke. As a society, we pay a LOT of money for apneacs who gave up on CPAP.

Apneacs should definitely use their machines. Taking the machine away from an apneac who's at least trying is a tragedy.

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Re: Does inusrance compensate for sleepless nights

Post by archangle » Fri Mar 02, 2012 4:49 pm

Since machines that record airflow waveform data are readily available and don't cost more than machines that don't for most patients, you're a FOOL if you buy one without waveform data as your primary machine.

That's like being treated for a heart attack in a hospital that doesn't have any EKG machines.

Do NOT even consider the IntelliPAP or the Transcend machine.

A PRS1 or S9 CPAP machine with all the accessories is only a tiny bit more inconvenient to carry than an Intellipap, Transcend, or WhateverMicro machine with all their parts. Carrying the machine is easy. Carrying the cords, hose, mask, headgear, chinstrap, distilled water, etc. is going to be roughly the same no matter which machine you've got.

If you've got to grab and go to the shelter, get a big gym bag or one of those plastic storage tubs of some sort. Take the water tank out of the machine, dump the water, then throw everything else into the bag. With any CPAP machine made in the past ten years, the effort will be about the same with a big CPAP or a small one. It's not hard, you simply grab everything attached to the CPAP and throw it in the box. It's not like airplane travel where you need to make everything fit into a tiny bag so it fits under your seat.

If you're cutting it so close that you can't take the few minutes extra time to leisurely pack all your CPAP parts and put them in the car, you're going to get killed by a storm on the way to the shelter anyway.

If you want a DC cigarette adapter cord or power inverter to use in the car, keep that stored in the car.

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Re: Does inusrance compensate for sleepless nights

Post by idamtnboy » Fri Mar 02, 2012 4:51 pm

LSAT wrote:I think the usual requirement is averaging 4 hours per night for 30 days. You will need the machine to show 120+ hours at the end of 30 days.
For Medicare it's number of nights >4 hours of use. There is no averaging. I think most insurance companies would be the same.
Adherence to therapy is defined as use of PAP > 4 hours per night on 70% of nights during a consecutive thirty (30) day period anytime during the first three (3) months of initial usage.

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Re: Does inusrance compensate for sleepless nights

Post by ems » Fri Mar 02, 2012 6:14 pm

Last nite wasn't a good nite and I think I slept around 3 hours. NightMonkey... would you be so kind as to tell me what STFITH means? Thanking you in advance for your kindness.
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Re: Does inusrance compensate for sleepless nights

Post by NightMonkey » Fri Mar 02, 2012 6:33 pm

ems wrote:Last nite wasn't a good nite and I think I slept around 3 hours. NightMonkey... would you be so kind as to tell me what STFITH means? Thanking you in advance for your kindness.

Hint:
archangle wrote: the risk of driving to the shelter is probably more than the risk of staying at home.
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Re: Does inusrance compensate for sleepless nights

Post by archangle » Fri Mar 02, 2012 8:06 pm

NightMonkey wrote:
ems wrote:Last nite wasn't a good nite and I think I slept around 3 hours. NightMonkey... would you be so kind as to tell me what STFITH means? Thanking you in advance for your kindness.

Hint:
archangle wrote: the risk of driving to the shelter is probably more than the risk of staying at home.
The math's pretty simple.

Less than 100 people die from tornadoes in the average year. There are about 300 million people in the US. Your chances of dying in a tornado are roughly 1 in 3 million per year.

An average of 1 fatality occurs for every 100 million vehicle miles driven in the US. If you drive an extra 33 miles in one year, your risk of dying in an automobile accident is about 1 in 3 million.

If the shelter is 10 miles away, if you take two round trips per year to the shelter, your odds of a car accident are higher than the odds of getting killed in a tornado.

Of course, your personal odds may be a little different from the average, but you're still not going to get many trips per year before the trips become more dangerous than staying at home.

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Re: Does inusrance compensate for sleepless nights

Post by macewa » Fri Mar 02, 2012 8:14 pm

If you know who you DME will be, go in and talk with them. I know mine worked with me and helped me, along with the doctor, to get an extension on my time so I could meet my requirements. If they know the problem and that is it real and that you realy want to meet those requirements,they might work with you and also might come up with some ideas on how to handle having the machine in the parking garage.
Guest wrote:My home is less than 10 min to the shelter. Since my husband works nights and I have two young girls I feel safer the minute they announce watch to go ahead and go on otherwise me and my scared to death girls pace the floor and dont relax. Sorry but we get very nervous when there are storms!! Severe thunderstorms even excite us! I dont have my equipment yet as I havent had my appt. with the dmc company yet. Thanks for all of you all answering my questions - never would have thought of bringing a power cord - duh

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