I'm a geek

[tomhole]

Newbie here. Had a sleep study done 4 years ago. Doc said I didn't sleep well but had no apneas. Snored like a lumberjack and woke up 40 times an hour, but had no real decreases in O2 saturation. Felt sorry for me and prescribed a CPAP but wouldn't diagnose me with OSD or anything that would allow me to get insurance to cover the CPAP. I was retiring from the Navy and busy getting a new job and left it at that.

Since then, my wife has kicked me out of the bedroom and I never sleep well. So I went crazy, logged on here and decided to see if I could get a CPAP with a 4 year old prescription. I'll be darned, you can. Figured I should get an auto machine since my sleep doc just put "start at 6" for the pressure on the prescription.

Anyway, now to the geek part. I set the S9 to a range of 4-20 and let er rip. love all the data that thing spits out. Had 8 apneas and 4 hypopneas according to the data. Also registerd a central apnea. AHI was 2.1. The S9 kept the pressure at a min of 10 and most of the time at 14 to 15. I'm using a full face mask because of the whole lumberjack thing. Got the same results on the second night (last night). Leaks were minimal and the snore index seemed low. My wife thought I had died because she walked by the guest bedroom where I sleep and didn't here me sawing logs.

So, the data indicate to me that I may be worse than that sleep study lead the doc to believe 4 years ago. I would like to characterize just how bad just to satisfy my curiosity. Can I set the pressure to 4, turn off the auto feature and see what the S9 records for events? I'm thinking this might capture how bad I was without the CPAP.

I also got an oximeter to see if my O2 sat goes haywire without the CPAP.

I know I should go back to the doc, but I like this geeky analysis stuff. I don't see any danger to me personally because I've spent 45 years sleeping like crap. Also spent 20 years sucking on positive pressure oxygen in a fighter jet. Not sure there is any real danger here experimenting with myself.

So, that's that. Would appreciate any inputs on the self sleep test outlined above.

And thanks for this site. I would not have gotten a CPAP on my own without the advice I found here. Of course, there are those that would say I shouldn't get a CPAP on my own. Not sure who's right but I'm having a blast with this stuff (thus the title of this post).

Tom

[Guest]

my doctor told me that he knows drs. that have bought cpap machines even though they had no sleep apnea. They just wanted the benefits that the oxygen provided their bodies. JMHO

[Janknitz]

my doctor told me that he knows drs. that have bought cpap machines even though they had no sleep apnea. They just wanted the benefits that the oxygen provided their bodies. JMHO

Those aren't very smart doctors if they think that a CPAP machine delivers oxygen. The airway is either open or it's not. If it's open, you are perfectly capable of breathing in your own oxygen (air) without mechanical assistance. If your airway closes down because of apnea, the air will not get to your lungs, even if you wear an oxygen mask. All the column of air provided by the machine does is splint the airway open, so the air you breathe in can get into your lungs. It does not increase the amount of oxygen you breathe in.

And Tom, therein is the truth--it's a column of air, nothing more. Unless you have severe lung disease, it can't hurt you (unless you drop the machine on your head). So there's nothing wrong with your experimentation. Just watch your data--if you see a bunch of CA's, then there might be a problem (some people believe too much pressure can induce centrals). But for run of the mill OSA, you should be fine.

[Pugsy]

I would like to characterize just how bad just to satisfy my curiosity. Can I set the pressure to 4, turn off the auto feature and see what the S9 records for events? I'm thinking this might capture how bad I was without the CPAP.

It won't be a "true" test because there is some therapy value even with 4 cm of pressure but it might give you an inkling of what it might be without cpap.
If you can comfortably breathe at 4 cm of pressure to test yourself to partially satisfy your curiosity then go for it.

[GumbyCT]

Can I set the pressure to 4, turn off the auto feature and see what the S9 records for events? I'm thinking this might capture how bad I was without the CPAP.

You can. Not sure what you hope to accomplish or why? Many can't get enuff air to breath at 4cm and as Pugsy noted that is just a tad above ambient pressure. Keep all that in mind.

When experimenting you might want to try (esp. this 4cm thing) at nap time, so as not to mess up your whole nite. You do have a blank notebook you are making notes in, right? Making one change at a time so you know what change caused the effect?

If it were me I would let the machine go to where it helped me get a good nites sleep. But hey it's not me and I am not one to tell people what "they" should do.

Welcome to the forum and Good Luck.

[cowlypso]

Doc said I didn't sleep well but had no apneas. Snored like a lumberjack and woke up 40 times an hour, but had no real decreases in O2 saturation.

Did they figure out WHY ou woke up 40 times an hour??? Just because you don't have any significant desaturations doesn't mean you don't have OSA! On my sleep study, most of my events were hypopneas, rather than apneas. I had very few desaturations, and none of them were significant. But I still have OSA, and have benefitted tremendously from CPAP.

I think that doctor that did the sleep study had no clue what he was doing, and deprived you of 4 years of treatment by not giving you a proper diagnosis.

[jweeks]

Tom,

When properly treated with CPAP, you should no longer snore. That means you are not limited to a full face mask. There are smaller and lighter masks out there. The trick to using the ones that cover only your nose is to be able to keep the air from coming back out your mouth.

Yes, age is a major factor in OSA and breathing disorders. You can get much worse in as little as 4 years. OSA can cause serious physical damage to your body. The sooner you get it under control, the less collateral damage you will have to deal with later on.

Given all the fun you have had, just think how much more fun you could have if you (a) had 24 channels of data from a PSG (sleep study), and (b) had a highly skilled sleep doctor to help you understand that data. For example, if your pressure is getting up in the 14 range, you might need a BiPAP. If you have H events rather than OA events, you might need a ASV machine. If air flow is an issue, a VPAP might be better. FInally, the central event might be something to follow up on. Some of these are simply random events, others are false positives. But if it is a real central, you might have a more difficult to treat case where the pressure level for good treatment is very close to the max pressure that your body will tolerate (if your pressure gets too high, your brain may fail to trigger your lungs to breathe, which is how centrals can happen).

Bottom line, you will not regret getting a new sleep study. Go for it, and thank you for your service to our country.

-john-

[tomhole]

John, great advise. I found out from a fellow veteran that Tricare will cover a new sleep study. If that reveals a more serious problem than 4 years ago, then they will cover the cost of a different machine and or mask. I will definitely do that.

Tom

[Lizistired]

He woke up 40 times an hour because his brain woke him up before he had 10 full seconds of not breathing. I have O2 drops with 4-5 second unflagged apneas.

I would guess you were somewhat hypervigilant while on active duty and that may be fading, allowing you to sleep more deeply and thus have apneas.

Experimenting might be fun. But before doing that, I would raise the minimum to 11 and leave the max at 20 for a week or 2. You will notice a difference in how you feel if you get used to sleeping better before you experiment. That will give you another piece of data to analyze.

If you haven't seen it, There is a link to the ResScan tutorial in my signature below. You didn't mention what software you were using.
Welcome to the forum!

[JeffL]

Doc said I didn't sleep well but had no apneas. Snored like a lumberjack and woke up 40 times an hour, but had no real decreases in O2 saturation.

Did they figure out WHY ou woke up 40 times an hour??? Just because you don't have any significant desaturations doesn't mean you don't have OSA! On my sleep study, most of my events were hypopneas, rather than apneas. I had very few desaturations, and none of them were significant. But I still have OSA, and have benefitted tremendously from CPAP.

I think that doctor that did the sleep study had no clue what he was doing, and deprived you of 4 years of treatment by not giving you a proper diagnosis.

Maybe his own snoring woke him up (been there, done that). But you are probably right.

[GumbyCT]

John, great advise. I found out from a fellow veteran that Tricare will cover a new sleep study. If that reveals a more serious problem than 4 years ago, then they will cover the cost of a different machine and or mask. I will definitely do that.

Tom

IF you are enrolled with the VA you can get a sleep study with them. IF they are backed up or you get one locally - get a copy of the sleep study report and the prescription to give to the VA and they will provide the equipment and supplies needed.

The VA is a little slow off the line, about a month to get equipment so don't stop what you are doing to wait but do proceed.

[rocklin]

He woke up 40 times an hour because his brain woke him up before he had 10 full seconds of not breathing.

Yes, I think that is likely.

Does he . . . or doesn’t he?

Only his hairdresser—uh, I mean PzzzST—knows for sure.

[chunkyfrog]

Hi, there tom.
You admit to being a geek, but no mention of a Zeo.
You're missing some real fun!

[tomhole]

Oh my, I like that Zeo. Might have to get that.

[chunkyfrog]

Yeah, guys, he's one of us.
He'll do all right.