NO CPR stamp

[Bert_Mathews]

It's an idea that has unleashed heated debate in Switzerland: A chest stamp for people who do not want to be resuscitated in the event of a medical emergency.



If a person's heart stops, a medic's job is to revive the patient. Even if that person has written a living will, there's normally no way for an emergency crew to know whether he or she want to receive CPR. Only about 10 percent of patients are able to lead normal lives after being resuscitated, and a large number are left with permanent health problems. A "No CPR" body stamp is being proposed as a way for emergency medical technicians to discern whether a patient wants to be revived.

==================== I think it's a GREAT IDEA - - - - LOOKING for what others think?

What's The laws?
Will the Medic's follow your wishes?
What if this was on a Medic Alert Bracelet?

[cindjo717]

Don't they have special medical alert bracelets for that?

[Mary Z]

No medical alert bracelets for DNR. You could try, but it would not be a legal document. This is a real problem (though off topic sort of). Even if you have a living will specifying no CPR if paramedics are called unless there is a copy for them to read they have to do CPR (unless you're plainly dead). They recommend keeping important copies of papers like this on your fridge, but that doesn't help if you're out of the house. My mother in law died last month and was a DNR but since paperwork was not in the home, even with a daughter there who knew her mother's wishes the paramedics had to proceed.
I'd be first in line for that tattoo. Maybe they could put a box beside organ donor on your drivers license though that would be a legal nightmare.

[dnrperez]

As a paramedic this issue has come up and caused A LOT of debate. In Texas we have a special out of hospital DER form for this purpose. Legally we can not honor the "stamp", but we take it into account. Me personally I would contact our on duty physician and make sure they understand your request if this was to happen. Biggest thing is making sure your family knows what you want due to fact they can over ride your choice and make us attempt to being you back.

[jnk]

No medical alert bracelets for DNR. . . . .

I believe there may be, in some places anyway, Mary.

How can I ensure that the EMT or paramedic responding to my emergency needs will honor my DNR wish? The best way to ensure that your wishes are honored is to complete the official State Prehospital DNR form and have it signed by your physician and readily accessible when EMS help arrives. If you are concerned about the form being available at all times, you would be well-advised to obtain and wear a MedicAlert bracelet or neck medallion engraved with your DNR requirements.

http://www.emsa.ca.gov/personnel/DNR_faq.asp

. . . off topic sort of . . .

Personally, I agree with you. An "OT" stamp may be helpful on the chest of this thread.

[deltadave]

DNR is frequently used for critically and/or terminally ill patients. Meaning they're in a facility of some sort where DNR can be adequately complied with.

If you're on the outside, walking around with your DNR logo stamped on your head, the implication is that if you can "walk", you have some some degree of "health" and want to "live".

So OK, while you're walking, you step on a live power line (of which there've been a lot of around here lately). "Zap" your heart stops. Eeeeew. Somebody comes to render aid and turns you over to see the DNR stamp. And actually, they get zapped cause they're stoopid cause they don't know not to touch a person lying on live wires.

Anyway, somebody from across the street comes running over with an AED and a fiberglass pole. They defib the stoopid guy and he wakes up and says thanks and goes on to live 40 more years. The AED operator sees the DNR stamp and thinks "Boy I'll bet this guy would've wanted to be defibbed. Oh well. Later."

[Bert_Mathews]

No medical alert bracelets for DNR. You could try, but it would not be a legal document. This is a real problem (though off topic sort of). Even if you have a living will specifying no CPR if paramedics are called unless there is a copy for them to read they have to do CPR (unless you're plainly dead). They recommend keeping important copies of papers like this on your fridge, but that doesn't help if you're out of the house. My mother in law died last month and was a DNR but since paperwork was not in the home, even with a daughter there who knew her mother's wishes the paramedics had to proceed.
I'd be first in line for that tattoo. Maybe they could put a box beside organ donor on your drivers license though that would be a legal nightmare.

THANKX for your story......Seems like only 10% of resuscitated patients survive without big problems. There should be a WAY?? FORM? STAMP? TATTOO?

As a paramedic this issue has come up and caused A LOT of debate. In Texas we have a special out of hospital DER form for this purpose.

I have a COPY that "jnk" left a LINK that is used in California - so- I you could post the one used in TX . . . I might MAKE a FORM to post around the HOUSE "JUST IN CASE"
Could Not find anything Just for Michigan????

[NightMonkey]

Seems like only 10% of resuscitated patients survive without big problems.

Where did you get this statistic and have you looked into what it really means?

Many people who are resuscitated are elderly people with serious health problems. They are not "walking around on the street" anyway.

My grandmother has advanced dementia at the age of 92 and recently my father and his siblings signed a DNR. My dad has durable power of attorney and only his signature was needed but he would not sign until the others did.

The nursing home my grandmother is in has the DNR readily available and standard procedure in the home is to check before any patient is revived.

I think the problem with the statistic is that many people who would not want to be resuscitated never sign a DNR or their responsible party never signs a DNR. So I would not expect them to get a stamp.

What do you imagine is the profile of the people who would get the stamps? Would you?

[Kairosgrammy]

Good idea. Saw a show (I know fiction) where a guy was revived, had cancer, wanted to just allow nature to take its place. I think though, a bracelet like what a diabetic wears is sufficient though.

It's an idea that has unleashed heated debate in Switzerland: A chest stamp for people who do not want to be resuscitated in the event of a medical emergency.



If a person's heart stops, a medic's job is to revive the patient. Even if that person has written a living will, there's normally no way for an emergency crew to know whether he or she want to receive CPR. Only about 10 percent of patients are able to lead normal lives after being resuscitated, and a large number are left with permanent health problems. A "No CPR" body stamp is being proposed as a way for emergency medical technicians to discern whether a patient wants to be revived.

==================== I think it's a GREAT IDEA - - - - LOOKING for what others think?

What's The laws?
Will the Medic's follow your wishes?
What if this was on a Medic Alert Bracelet?

[GumbyCT]

My mother in law died last month and was a DNR but since paperwork was not in the home, even with a daughter there who knew her mother's wishes the paramedics had to proceed.

The safest, bestest way to make sure a DNR is complied with is to NOT call 911. Once you initiate 911 they have to at least go thru the motions bc they are afraid of being sued.

IF terminally ill, there is prob a doc involved, right? Call the doc instead of 911. Better yet have all these details discussed with the doc, family, and the funeral home who will transport the body instead of paramedics. AND or course a properly notarized Living Will can then be helpful for the cya of those involved.

HTH

[portiemom]

A chest stamp? Creepy I just saw "Girl With the Dragon Tattoo, so I don't want to see a chest tattoo again any time soon no matter what it reads. Perhaps there should be a copy of the DNR that can be carried in your wallet like the Organ Donor Card.

[Alienart]

I have a bigger issue with death than with not being able to lead a normal life. Life will be too short regardless. Whatever you believe is on the other side of life, I'm pretty sure it lasts a really long time. No need to rush into it.

[Lizistired]

PBS recently ran a program about this very topic and the number of people who were being revived against there wishes. One woman in the program had her DNR order tatooed on her chest. Why are we forced into the health care system to survive with no quality of life?
Our local hospital has a policy that until the attending physician has discussed it with the patient, a DNR will not be respected.
What kind of crap is that?
$$$.
How much money does the health care facility make keeping you alive?
It also said that 95% of Americans die in hospitals. $$$.

[Bert_Mathews]

$$$.
How much money does the health care facility make keeping you alive?
It also said that 95% of Americans die in hospitals. $$$.

Think you hit the nail on the head!!

[GumbyCT]

My mother in law died last month and was a DNR but since paperwork was not in the home, even with a daughter there who knew her mother's wishes the paramedics had to proceed.

The safest, bestest way to make sure a DNR is complied with is to NOT call 911. Once you initiate 911 they have to at least go thru the motions bc they are afraid of being sued.

IF terminally ill, there is prob a doc involved, right? Call the doc instead of 911. Better yet have all these details discussed with the doc, family, and the funeral home who will transport the body instead of paramedics. AND or course a properly notarized Living Will can then be helpful for the cya of those involved.

HTH

EDIT: To Avoid the waiting line at Boot Hill
It is also helpful to make sure that each local hospital, to which you could be transported, has a copy of your Living Will in your medical record, in case someone panics when you are out in public and calls the medics. The hospital is less likely to get aggressive IF they know they won't be sued.

ps. I do have a CPR save to my credit and can say the man was walking and talking when I last saw him. You would never know it. Tho I will admit, it has to be a "witnessed cardiac arrest" AND must be your lucky day to boot.